Man, this game is great ...

raynor · #1 January 30th, 2001, 12:46 AM

To DirectorTsaarx:

No. There are actually folks out there who go out of their way to make the game more difficult and still find it to be quite easy.

Maybe those of who think the AI is a little easy are seasoned players of classics such as Civ, CivII, MOO, MOO2, Alpha Centauri, etc. Or maybe, we think it is easy because we NEVER, EVER use the ministers but instead micro-manage everything. After all... the micromanagement in this game isn't quite so bad as Civ, for example.

On high difficulty, high races, max bonus, the AI massively out researches you and out intelligences you. But it still makes extremely poor choices for what to build on planets. So, it may build 25 research facilities on a huge world with 150% minerals. This hurts it quite a lot. I think the main problem with the AI is that it doesn't evaluate planets galaxy or even system-wide. This is a pretty major whole in the AI and one which really limits its effectiveness on any difficulty level with any bonus setting. This isn't a problem in CivII or Alpha Centauri because you don't have production facilities for each of the three resources. Instead, every colony gets a little of each. It just gets more if the settler units develop them a bit. SE IV is more interesting but harder to design the AI.

The AI in CivII seems to be pretty good at beginning an attack, maintaining the attack and continuing until you are utterly destroyed. SE IV, here I can't even qualify it as AI, instead rolls the dice and says: Well, if I attack him ever so often, he won't go to sleep. It doesn't really matter where I attack or for how long or if I attack even every planet in the system. What is more important is that I attack him enough that he knows I'm still out there. Too often, the AI will have ships in a system but not attack every colony until they are all destroyed. Once it starts attacking, it doesn't finish off the entire system. Instead it either sits there or pulls its ships out. For the most part, I feel like I have to put my ships next to his before he'll attack them.

Of course, we know that the AI has no ability to design its ships based upon what you are sending against it. It can't choose what to build based on the moment. Instead, it builds a certain number of the same exact ships no matter what it is faced by. Compare this to the very best TB game out there: Alpha Centauri. AC gives you some great choices when designing units. But they are pitiful in comparison to SE IV. SE IV rocks. But all those different unit types make the AI's job just that much more difficult.

Let's look at SE IV from a basic military point of view. What are some good objectives in warfare?

1. Pick your battles.
2. Attack with overwhelming force.
3. Fight on as few fronts as possible.

What does that mean? Well, the human player focuses all his forces on two or three wormholes leading into his systems. Once you do that, SE IV doesn't have a chance. The game has no concept of defending choke points with EVERYTHING you've got. Sure, it will build a few mines and a few satellites here and there. It does very well building huge numbers of WEP's on its homeworld. But it doesn't seem to position its ships in any sort of strategic fashion. This makes it easy for even a weaker human player to systematically destroy the computer player's fleets.

Once again, I want you to know that I have a lot of fun playing this game. Personally, I *like* winning. But this max bonus game was the first challenging game I had ever had. But the challenge was short lived. It took longer to build defenses at my choke points. But once I had, the game was over. Oh, and I didn't use mines until the AI did. Once he started sending Mine Sweeper IV's through, I didn't feel so guilty.

Let me hasten to add that the AI is getting better with each patch. Even with a simpleton AI, the game is a bLast to play. And the ability to customize so many different things. Outstanding. I'll say it again, in case you didn't read a previous post, Aaron is a genius! The modders are brilliant. I can't wait to see what Mephisto pulls out of his hat next. Again, I apologize for not remembering other Modder's names. Rambie is a genius with the graphics.

The game is a winner. Buy it. Recommend it to your friends. Let's make Aaron a millionaire. But let's be honest. The AI is about the only weakness in this awesomely great game. ('Course, I wouldn't mind if it stopped crashing on me...)

Emperor Zodd · #2 January 30th, 2001, 12:57 AM

Well maybe we will get TCP/IP play soon,and we can play all weekend marathons!

raynor · #3 January 30th, 2001, 12:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Emperor Zodd:
Well maybe we will get TCP/IP play soon,and we can play all weekend marathons!

I hope so! I didn't get that DSL connection for nothing.

Emperor Zodd · #4 January 30th, 2001, 01:01 AM

I have a cable modem,and I think it will be a totally different game once we play each other!

[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 29 January 2001).]

Emperor Zodd · #5 January 30th, 2001, 01:03 AM

The AI is good for practice,but for real war and excitement you need to play against a crafty human!!!!

SunDevil · #6 January 30th, 2001, 01:06 AM

Raynor:

1. Poor Choices building on Planets:

Goto Default_AI_Construction_Facilities, this is where the ai models itself on what to build. If you have the default Version(as in not made any changes yet) you will see that for most colony types they have like six options. If you check out the latest mod pack 1.01 I think and look at the Darlock file (Dalock_Ai_Construction_Facilities) it has twenty-six options on what to build. Copy this and make it the default one and all ai races will build colonies with many more varied facilities. Next go to Default_Ai_Planet_Types, you will see a list of different choices the ai makes in order for pick a planet for a specific colony type.
There has been numerous Posts about modding this document, so trying searching for it on the board.

2. The way Ai attacks other races:
I've done some recent modding on all default races making them actually do what their race description says. With future patches and/or more upgrades to my mod, the aggressive/war monging races will attack faster and longer than the default files are currently set for.

3. the AI has no ability to design its ships:

This problem can be fixed/modded in the file called Default_Ai_Design_Creation. You can make the ships hold and carry whatever you want. I haven't played with this much yet, but if you want the ai to be able to build better ships and what them to have the weapon capability to handle numerous situations, then this is the file to mod.

All the things you have mentioned can be improved ten times over, someone has to do it first. With all the other modders and myself we will sooner or later fix all this, unless of course this stuff is covered in next few patches. But anyway, if you want a challenging game and be a huge help to this community, then start reading/editing the data files and make changes that improve the ai. I think that is how all the modders so far have gotten started. You bring up very good points and you're right the game is awesome. But each time someone Posts a new mod that helps make the game more realistic,
the better the game gets. I hope this answers some of your concerns, I hope you have the time/desire to fix/revise any of this above mentioned. If you have any questions let me know.

pathfinder · #7 January 30th, 2001, 01:13 AM

As I have said before, guess ahm an idjit as I have only beaten the AI once and that was a neutral, 1-system race and the only other opponent I had!

So sure I out-resourced it.

But since then and I only give the AI medium ability, low extra and medium #'s and it still knocks the stuffing outta me. But guess what, I do not care....one day I WILL beat it...this is a challenge for me. and yes, I have played Civ 2, alpha centauri and MOO2...still this one beats them hands down...IMO anyways.