OT: Alien Contact

[Ragnarok]

Kind of odd when you consider that the Bible was written well after all of those historical events. None of this historical events were predicted at all. The authors of the Bible simply wrote it after the fact, and wrote it as if they were predicting the future.

And what says these events weren't predicted? And no, you saying it does not count.

My "argument" is that you are wrong. You have to prove yourself right for me to be wrong. Since you can't prove yourself right (as all of your evidence is wrong), my argument is true. You are wrong. There is little extra work going from showing that your arguments are wrong to saying that you are wrong.

But you are saying, "I am right because I say everything was postdicted." You have yet to back that up either. Therefore I am right in saying your arguments are not based either. For you to argue that I am wrong you must prove it as well, which you have failed to do thus far.

First off, that is 100% wrong. There were a lot more earthquakes from 4 billion BC to 1914 than there have been since 1914 to today. We were not around to record them all, and not all of the earthquakes that happened when we were around were recorded, and so are not known about now. Nowadays, we can record every little earthquake that occurs, so you get the illusion that there are more earthquakes.

You are taking the points that I bring out and turning them into something I did not mean. It may be my fault for not being more clear but still.
Sure from 4Billion BC to 1914 there were alot. But I wasn't speaking of that time frame. I'm speaking of when mankind was put on the earth to 1914.

Basically what you are saying is "I have no real proof, but I know I am right, because I am, and the Bible says so." All of your arguments have been rather circular, and prove absolutely nothing. The biggest problem for you is that the Bible was written well after the real historical events took place, not before.

I have given real proof in that the predictions that were written in the Bible were intold fulfilled in secular history. You have denied this by saying that these things were written after the fact but that is not the case.
You are providing no evidence yourself in order to prove me wrong, you are simply saying that I am wrong because you say so.
Therefore, since you have yet to truely prove one of my points wrong your arguments to do just that have failed and it is a draw.

Edit: I am finally done with my part of the discussion. Neither one of us are getting anywhere with it so lets move on.

Edit2: And also I believe the forum guildlines prohibited getting into Bible discussions on this forum so I will refrain from doing just that. If others wish to continue conversation feel free.

[ February 27, 2003, 02:52: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Andrés]

I agree it’s impractical, but it was also impractical to send a ship to the moon.
IMO that’s the most plausible way aliens could get here.
Yes anyone embarking on such a mission would be saying goodbye to his/her/other(what sex can aliens have) home planet forever. I see that even if their cryogenics were good enough to send them and take them back during a lifetime, so long after they departed the world they return to would be as alien for them as any other they can visit.
I’m sure that if we had the technology to build such a ship, we’d do it. And it wouldn’t be so difficult to find volunteers for a 1 way trip to another planet.
If aliens are anything like us in that regard, they’ll do that too.

About multiple dimensions, excuse me if this has nothing to do with what you were talking about:
The same way you cannot place a 2D figure on a 1D line, or a 3D body in a 2D plane, you cannot put a 4D hyperbody in 3d space.
There can be infinite 1D lines in a 2D plane, infinite 2D planes in a 3D space and infinite 3D spaces in a 4D hyperspace.
Mathematically there can be any number of dimensions.

Unfortunately as we're 3D beings our minds have been designed to think in 3D, it's impossible for us to imagine a 4th spatial dimension.
Now imagine that the 1D line is not straight or that the 2D plane is crumpled. For someone moving along the line, or someone moving in that plane, it is impossible to see his universe is crumpled, you need to step out of their universe to see that. And when you do that, you can see that the shortest way between two points in the 1D or 2D universe is a straight line that jumps out of the crumpled universe.
This is the original concept of hyperspace, assuming that our 3D space is crumpled within a 4D hyperspace, and that you can find a shortcut by moving in straight line outside the universe.
Can anyone remember who was the sci-fi author that invented this?

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:

quote:

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Kind of odd when you consider that the Bible was written well after all of those historical events. None of this historical events were predicted at all. The authors of the Bible simply wrote it after the fact, and wrote it as if they were predicting the future.

And what says these events weren't predicted? And no, you saying it does not count.

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Wow you guys are just getting confusing now. I'm sure IF will have an answer but it would seem to me the fact (which you don't seem to be disputing) that the bible was written after these events would sort of mean it didn't predict them.

[ February 27, 2003, 04:02: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Taera]

the post is long and i dont want to read the whole 6 pages, i'll just post my opinion on the original topic.

In my opinion there IS intelligent life out there, though i dont believe in super-intelligent aliens because evolution simply cannot go that fast (remember - they couldnt have evolved before galaxy was born) and it seems that human evolution was hastened on its own (if you think about it humans are highly unsuitable for life in wilderness without intelligence - no protection, no real claws or anything). Which means there is no way we're going to see them any soon. Aliens, if they are, are most likely more primitive than us or at the same level. By the time we meet them (if we do - most likely all we would get is a radio signal) i presume we would have a space force (you dont have to go FTL to get to mars, for example) and it would be a little more difficult. That is, of course, given that Earth and its population can survive that long (resources are running low... and governments are going crazy)

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Taera:
[QBAliens, if they are, are most likely more primitive than us or at the same level[/QB]

Well I don't thikg I agree with this. The galaxy is what... 4 billion years old? (or is that just the Earth?? ) Just think how much we have advanced in the Last oh say 200 years. Either way we have advanced a hell of a lot in a time space that on a cosmic scale is extremely small.

[ February 27, 2003, 04:53: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:

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Originally posted by Taera:
[QBAliens, if they are, are most likely more primitive than us or at the same level

Well I dont thing I agree with this. The galaxy is what... 4 billion years old? (or is that just the Earth?? ) Just think how much we have advanced in the Last oh say 200 years. Either way we have advanced a hell of a lot in a time space that on a cosmic scale is extremely small.[/QB]

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The Galaxy is something like 6-8 billion years old, and the Universe is between 12 and 20 billion years old. The Milky Way was around long before Sol and the Earth came about.

[Fyron]

And what says these events weren't predicted? And no, you saying it does not count.

Because IT WAS WRITTEN AFTER THOSE EVENTS TOOK PLACE. Maybe you will see that if I capitalize it.

But you are saying, "I am right because I say everything was postdicted." You have yet to back that up either. Therefore I am right in saying your arguments are not based either. For you to argue that I am wrong you must prove it as well, which you have failed to do thus far.

Sure I have. If you take a look at my previous sentence, that pretty much sums up how you are wrong.

You are taking the points that I bring out and turning them into something I did not mean. It may be my fault for not being more clear but still.
Sure from 4Billion BC to 1914 there were alot. But I wasn't speaking of that time frame. I'm speaking of when mankind was put on the earth to 1914.

Ignoring the erroneous "put on the earth" bit... there were many more earthquakes from about 2 million BC (when the first ancestors of modern humans evolved) to 1914 than there have been from 1914 until the present day.

I have given real proof in that the predictions that were written in the Bible were intold fulfilled in secular history. You have denied this by saying that these things were written after the fact but that is not the case.
You are providing no evidence yourself in order to prove me wrong, you are simply saying that I am wrong because you say so.

Umm... Babylon was long gone by the time the Bible was written. Basic elementary school history lessons will tell you that. Your real proof is not real at all, and certainly not proof. It is completely wrong. The New Testament was mostly written about the time that this Jesus guy was alive, which is millennia after Babylon fell. It is millennia after they sacked Jerusalem. Since you are a Christian, the New Testament is the most important part of the Bible to you, so it is the most relevant part.

Therefore, since you have yet to truely prove one of my points wrong your arguments to do just that have failed and it is a draw.

Very basic knowledge of history is enough to know that your arguments are wrong. I guess not everyone learned stuff in school. Should I go get a 6th grade history book for you to prove these things?

Edit: I am finally done with my part of the discussion. Neither one of us are getting anywhere with it so lets move on.

Only because you ignore basic historical facts so that your beliefs remain valid. Noone knows exactly when past events occured, yet you seem to claim that you do, and you know when they happened. Does the Bible tell you when they happened?

Edit2: And also I believe the forum guildlines prohibited getting into Bible discussions on this forum so I will refrain from doing just that. If others wish to continue conversation feel free.

Forum guidelines? I have not heard of those. I have also seen a number of discussions similar to this one on Shrapnel over the years that were not moderated away. There is no problem continuing this discussion.

Can anyone remember who was the sci-fi author that invented this?

No clue. I don't think Asimov used hyperspace, and Lucas didn't really create anything original. I don't read a lot of older sci-fi, so I couldn't tell you.

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
quote:

Kind of odd when you consider that the Bible was written well after all of those historical events. None of this historical events were predicted at all. The authors of the Bible simply wrote it after the fact, and wrote it as if they were predicting the future.

And what says these events weren't predicted? And no, you saying it does not count.

Wow you guys are just getting confusing now. I'm sure IF will have an answer but it would seem to me the fact (which you don't seem to be disputing) that the bible was written after these events would sort of mean it didn't predict them.

That is indeed a fact. It is a fact that Rags enjoys disregarding, as it directly contradicts his beliefs. Can't possibly look at facts that would do that, now can we?

To Rags:
Me saying it comes from going through school and becoming educated enough to have a basic understanding of when historical events took place. If I were a historian, I could probably cite you references that would dispel that myth that you believe about the Bible predicting actual events quite quickly.