Production based vs. Resource Based Games

[SunDevil]

Are you guys emailing your suggestions to MM. I would, I've liked everyone's idea so far.

[dmm]

A complicated, small thing can take just as many resources to build as a simple, large thing for the following reason: in the latter case, the thing itself uses up the resources, whereas in the former case, the workers use up the resources. So the current resource allocation scheme implicitly takes labor into account already.

However, the labor "resource" would be an improvement if construction times/costs depended upon racial attributes. Then, for example, an emotionless race could build small, complicated things at less cost in resources because of their simple lifestyle. But large, simple things would have the same resource costs. As another example, warlike races might get a labor bonus when building/maintaining warships and a labor penalty when building/maintaining infrastructure, but other resource costs would be unaffected. Another aspect that could be explored would be how usage of labor (i.e., employment) affected happiness. A worker race might be unhappy with unused labor resources, whereas an artist race would love it. The happiness level would, in turn, affect productivity. (Not sure how to balance that so that worker races don't get unfair advantages. Maybe worker races should be harder to keep happy [because they're Type A], or more prone to set up independent empires [because they're more entrepreneurial].)

[Baron Munchausen]

But EVERY advancement in technology should not have to be paid for in higher minerals/organics/radioactive usage. Sometimes technology REDUCES the resource cost to do something rather than increases it. If we had a "labor" cost to components along with resources, and population generated "labor" (adjusted by mood like other forms of production), there would be another way to prortray the relative costs and benefits of technologies. Some technologies would cost more resources anyway, of course, but some would not, and some would cost LESS resources but more labor.

Since I hold that maintenance is "implied" in the duties of your ship crews, I don't see any need to charge labor for maintenance, just resources. You could then increase the difficulty of BUILDING higher tech ships, bases, facilities, etc. WITHOUT increasing the maintenance. It might be interesting to use labor cost for repairs, though...

This could also adjust the "floating space yard" problem that some have talked about where a spaceyard in a ship can go anywhere and build anything lickety-split. Sure, a space yard ought to have a "default" labor pool (representing the crew that comes with it) but to build a huge, complex thing like a starbase you want to be near a labor pool, like a large planet. So, if orbital space yards could use the labor from a planet in their sector, space yard bases would tend to be built at large population centers like you'd expect in a "realistic" game. Building a starbase in an empty system ought to be tough. It would be really cool, though, if MM would implement the "habitat" ability we've been wanting for "nomad" races and you could build a space-dormitory ship for a work force to generate the labor at your construction site... I don't think a population in a cargo bay should be able to work... unless they're slave labor? There should have to be a reasonable custom-built living area for them.

As for racial abilities, I suppose that "Mining/Farming/Refining" aptitudes would have to be modified to work from your labor pool. In other words, production for each facility would be based on labor available, multiplied by these aptitudes.

I do like the idea of technologies that increase available labor, though. The "Robotoid Factory" facilities could be changed to increase available labor, for example. But there might be other ways to increase labor avialability that could be added for increased interest.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 February 2001).]

[Puke]

a thought on space habitats mentioned below (and previously). not possible on ships under the current game mechanics, granted. but if we could create a stellar construction (ie ring/sphereworld) in open space, and then be able to put an engine facility on it as people were talking about with the 'planet moving' thread a while back, would that not be equivilant to a habitat ship? you could colonize it and put facilities on it. you could make the build requirements small(er than for a rw/sw), and it would have the capabilities people describe.

we just need the ability to create a new kind of stellar construction, do it in a non-star sector, and have it be able to move. now, wither or not a moving planet is possible within the game engine is another question.