BIG AI problem in Proportion games with "classical" movement :( :(

[oleg]

OK, here is a test save game:
1047582963.ZIP

You play as Xiati. Take over all AI and you will see the problem with Drushocka, praetorian, xi'chung, pequeninos. Reload the save game file, play for some number of turs, switch AI to you - same transports are still on orbit with AI swearing ! If you play longer, you can see the same problem with colony ships. And that's even worse problem !!

N.B. the game uses my data files I mentioned here before, Pequeninos AI is slightly modified as well.

[ March 13, 2003, 19:23: Message edited by: oleg ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

quote:

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Originally posted by oleg:
No it is not hardcoded. Population level is in planetsize.txt, pop. modifiers and mass in settings.txt. If it was hardcoded, proportions would be impossible

Right, the only thing I was not sure about is the planetsize thing. I have done some tests with the original files:
1) I have not seen the AI problems with transports, well not yet. I have performed a quick AIcampaign test and saw the issue immediately "cannot load cargo..." and the transporters stuck in orbit
2) I have tested my idea below with 2,000,000 population at medium planets, original pop mass, pop modifier of settings.txt multiplied by 1,000. It works ! Even with the biggest number of the original settings.txt:

Pop Modifier 12 Population Amount := 2000000000
Pop Modifier 12 Production Modifier Percent := 200
Pop Modifier 12 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 200

Is there anything I have missed about it? Why has PvK not used this way instead of setting the pop mass to 1,000kT? Maybe a max. number problem with sphere worlds?

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Thanks ! You see, it is a BIG problem for AI. One reason PvK used current Proportion' settings is because this f... problem was not known. He wants population to be a special cargo, which requires special components, like starliner modules. Ans I totally agree with him. If only SE was not SO buggy even two years after release...

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by oleg:
He wants population to be a special cargo, which requires special components, like starliner modules. Ans I totally agree with him.

Small mistake of mine, it would be everything times 200 not 1,000.

But I still not get the point about starliners and such. What's the difference? You would have to carry 200 pop units instead of 1. This can be handled with starliners also and if you take every pop modifier x 200, and change things like clone centers accordingly it would make no difference to the current gameplay.

[oleg]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
But I still not get the point about starliners and such. What's the difference? You would have to carry 200 pop units instead of 1. This can be handled with starliners also and if you take every pop modifier x 200, and change things like clone centers accordingly it would make no difference to the current gameplay.[/QB]

Because it looks cool humans are not satellites after all, right ? Still this bug puzzles me. Simultaneous turns work perfectly allright, as well as when you play you race with all AI on. It is just simply a bug, Aaron should simply fix it. That' certainly better than turning the beatifull PvK' work upside down !

[PsychoTechFreak]

I agree with the bug. But it could be an improvement in some cases, e.g. finetuning of pop modifiers and such. I am going to give it a try and turn PvK's work "upside down", I am just curious how this would change gameplay and feel.
At least it would help the AI as we know yet... until it get's fixed.

[oleg]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I agree with the bug. But it could be an improvement in some cases, e.g. finetuning of pop modifiers and such. I am going to give it a try and turn PvK's work "upside down", I am just curious how this would change gameplay and feel.
At least it would help the AI as we know yet... until it get's fixed.

But will it ? There are some well based rumors that 1.84 is the Last patch ever. MM is very busy with future projects and I certainly don't blame him. If only I had an access to source code I would likely nail this bug in no time, it's got to be pretty well localised in AI subroutines.

[PvK]

I think MM is still interested in important bugs in SE4. When he might release another patch though, I don't know. Do we think this is a new one from 1.84? Have we seen it in the unmodded game as well?

PvK