[OT] Plato's Pub and Philosophical Society

[Fyron]

I think some people are confusing determinism with predestination. The two are wholely unrelated concepts.

[Krsqk]

Determinism is a materialistic view that says everything in the universe is the direct result of the (admittedly complex) interactions of matter, energy, and natural forces. Predestination is the theological view that one's eternal state was decided before creation and is unalterable.

[QuarianRex]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Determinism is a materialistic view that says everything in the universe is the direct result of the (admittedly complex) interactions of matter, energy, and natural forces. Predestination is the theological view that one's eternal state was decided before creation and is unalterable.

For our purposes there is no real difference or the distinction just doesn't apply. Determinism says that our actions are preordained by the laws of the universe, while predesedination maintains that our actions are set by god (at least one interpretation does anyway). You say pot-AY-to, I say pot-AH-to. The only real difference is that determinism stops at death (on the personal level, that is) while predestination keeps dictating your afterlife. If predestination is taken to mean that only the afterlife is set then there is no real comparisson at all.

[Chronon]

My dictionary has the following:

Determinism: The philosophical doctrine that every event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedents, such as physical, psychological, or environmental conditions, that are independent of the human will.

Predestinate: 1. To destine or determine in advance: foreordain.

So, there is a philosophical difference between the two: predestination happened before the event, and determinism happens at the time of the event. And, theologically speaking, at least according to Calvinism, the only thing predestined is one's salvation. One's decisions in this life may reflect one's grace (or not ), but they are still one's own decisions.

In any case, I'm still not buying either one. No chemical process compelled me to write this post denouncing my enslavement to chemical processes!

[Kamog]

Well, even if predestination happened before the event and determinism happens at the time of the event, it seems that under both philosophies, there can only be one way in which the future can turn out. So if future events are deterministic, they might as well be predestined, because they can't be changed and can only happen one way.

[Fyron]

Predestination only determines your fate in the after life. It does nothing else. This is why it and determinism have nothing to do with each other.

[Kamog]

If our consciousness comes from chemicals in the brain, then there can be no afterlife. Once the brain stops, that's the end.