PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.

[Ruatha]

Hi Tbontob.
I essentially agree with you that the game is dead.
It's just hard letting go of the first game I've hosted, the first game where I've written an in-game story and the second game I've entered into in PBW.

I'll hear whith CaptRR first before I'll do anything else.

[Ruatha]

CaptRR. You and I could continue against the AI to get story material?

[Martuk]

Well, it was fun. That was my first PBW game, but I must state that I want to play again ... But not with that suspicious situation. I know that we may ally ourselves against the CCCPs, and we may win, but ... I like diplomacy relations, not the war, war is necessary for the game but I think that the great thing of playing against other humans is to negotiate with them, without that, the game loses a whole dimension, and war is the only thing that is left in the game. I will play another game if it is hosted for you, Ruatha, you have been a great host and I like the idea of a inner game story, so warn me if you start another one like this.

Greetings from Barcelona to everyone

[Ruatha]

Ok. If we do restart a new game. What settings should we have.
I'm thinking about these:
(It's alot (28 points) but I've learned to be specific)

1. No tech trading, No gifts/tributes. Only trading of materials. (This way we don't get high tech immediatly. It will be disabled)

2. Max alliances two players. (Military alliance or partnership), research and trade with how many tou like (This way we won't get superalliances, making it impossible to be a lone wolf. Now you still have achance on your own).

3. No Ai-mod (you don't have to worry that the AI will mes things up, the Ai has limited capacity, check bottom of this post)

4. Low tech start.

5. No surrendering.

6. Don't share comm channels or system maps.(More focus on individual exploration).

7. Always have a valid e-mail adress where the host can reach you.

8. Only own score is shown. (Use intel if you need more info on your neighbours)

9. 0 Starting race points. (harder to maximize and minimize racial traits.

10. Max.min of racial traits is allowed (if you want to do it you'll have to pay the prize by lowering something else)

11. Win condition 300% higher score than second player, starts after 80 turns. (Last man standing can take years, 300% then you're practicly set on the path to becoming Last man anyway)

12. High tech cost.

13. Intel allowed. (with max 1 partner we won't get ridicilus high intel points)

14. Max 100 mines/sector.

15. No omnipresent view. (explore)

16. Huge Galaxy (~255 systems, 1900+ planets) (I like it)

17. 20 players at start.

18. Retroseries are allowed. (If you want to pay for it use it)

19 . Roleplaying is encouraged as is in-game stories.

20. Absolutely no e-mail diplomacy prior to in-game contact.

21. Alliances are to be based upon in-game events and considerations only, no external friendship or such may come into play when deciding alliances.

22. Breaking the rules may result in a warning, or being kicked from the game. Depending on the nature and severity of the transgression. Decided by the host.

23. When uploading your empire mark wich shipset you are using. No duplicate shipsets allowed.

24. I will need an e-mail from each player before you are allowed to join.
(Please state wich players you know who has already entered the game and where you live.
It's ok to be friends with other players and to live near them. But be open with it so it won't rise questions later.)

25. When an empire becomes without player the host will go in and check that empire every fifth turn until a replacement i sfound. he will then see to it that the empire builds defences. He will not start or continue offensive actions.
in the case of a conflict between the hosts empire and the playerless empire the host must accept peace with that empire until a replacement has been found. (This is becouse of the No-Ai Mod)

26. The aim of this game is to have FUN.
If you see a fellow player making an obvious fatal mistake, alert them instead of taking advantage of it.

27. Total turtelling is forbidden!
(You may shut down worm-holes and build system gravitational shields but there must always be atleast one way to enter a system. If it doesn't have any worm-holes it can't have a system gravitational shield.
This goes for individual systems aswell as your entire empire.
You may shutdown all wormholes into your empire, then you may build system gravitational shields in all systems but one!)

28. Anything I've forgotten?



.No-Ai mod
One of the most frustrating things about playing Space Empires IV PBW, or any PBEM for that matter, is in the event you miss a turn, or if your turn file gets scrambled somehow, the ai will take your turn for you. As we all know the ai does a particularly awful job of handling things.

We all have horror stories I am sure. I was in a game once where the AI, broke several trade and research treaties, declared war on my closest neighbor, took control of my fleets in that system and wiped out three of his planets, not to mention filling my construction queues with worthless junk, and obsoleting and replacing all of my carefully thought out ship designs.

All his dirty work was done in one turn. But it took me 7 or 8 turns to undo the damage. Particularly because I was close to the limit on maintenance anyway, and loosing all that treaty income meant several ships being abandoned.

There is a setting in empire options "AI should not make changes during simultaneous games." As we all know, that does little or nothing to help the problem. Jimbob and I have come up with a solution. It involves replacing the files that control what the ministers do during your turn. More on how it does it later.

These files, will eliminate the problem as much as is possible. By using these files, the ai will NOT:
1. Obsolete your designs
2. Design new ships or units
3. Put ANYTHING in your construction queue
4. Become angry at other races, for ANY reason
5. Break existing treaties
6. Offer or accept new treaties
7. Declare war
8. Attack colonies of empires you are not at war with

Using these files the AI still MIGHT:
1. Fill your research queue if empty (I figured this is about the only thing it does decently)
2. Reply to Messages from other empires, but only to refuse any requests. (But I have modified the speech.txt file so that it is clear the refusals are coming from the AI and not the player)
3. Move your ships around somewhat
4. Attack colonies of Empires you are at war with.
5. Attack ships of Empires you are at war with.
6. Send colony ships that do not have previous orders.

It is very important that if that player leaves the game a human replacement is found. Turning them over to the ai will result in a useless do-nothing empire.

Do not use AI or Neutral players with this mod. It is not recommended that you allow the AI to take several turns for you using this mod. Basically it is for short term absences. It will continue doing nothing during a long term absence, and that could be worse than letteing the normal Ai run things for you.

Geoschmo


I will mail all of you who have shown interest when this game comes closer to reality.
(All non russians in NGC2)

Ruatha

[ March 16, 2003, 15:05: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[CaptRR]

Well, It looks like I've been overrulled. With so many people dropping, the game just wouldn't be fun anymore, which is a real shame since we all put alot of work into it.

A new game would be interesting, but then again I don't think we should go overboard imposing alot of new rules. Part of the fun of PBW is the openness to make alliances, share tech to work for a common interest, basiclly all the things you could do in the real world.

I will continue to submit to the story, I guess without the restrictions of the game I could get some pretty interesting concepts going. The story people will have to keep in contact with each other so we don't step on each others shoes. Maybee make a long term plan, for say the life of our chracters. I'm even thinking of starting a story prequal to the game, I hinted in my stories that there were some incidents between the Dravens and Weyrlings before the alliance was formed, but I never went into much detail. It would make a pretty good story.

I guess I'll start looking for a new game too, maybee a proportions game, been playing the mod for a while and it looks like it would be fun in PBW.

Once again I hate to see the game get screwed up it was alot of fun, and my first PBW game, I loved the deplomacy part of the game, even If I wasn't that good of a player.

[Ruatha]

well. I thought you where a good player, we where all newbies!

As to alot of rules. I belive that we got advanced tech way to early in NGC2. And I really like the exploring and diplomacy parts. I belive that our Central Powers alliance would have been to powerful if it hadn't been for the FMA allaince. I do belive we worked to good together and would have dominated (bragging a bit) and that wouldn't have been as fun as struggling to the top!
I lost my only completed PBW game but it was real fun anyway.

I'll mail you my future synopsis later tonight, what I have planned etc. I was thinking of posting it as the end to my story but if you'll continue writing so will I .
Now we only have to trick Tbontob into it aswell.
Should I continue running the turns with the Ai controlling ALL empires, and then mail you the the turn?
Then we will just have the events to write about but no way to actually control them, might be interesting!

[ March 16, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[tbontob]

So I need to be tricked into playing? I’ll take that as it was intended…a complement.

I really would like to play another game hosted by Ruatha. From what I can gather, it has been a learning experience for him. It certainly has been for me.

I like the specific description of the settings. And while I may prefer some of them be set differently, I could live with most of them.

But one I do have a problem with.

At the beginning of the NGC game, I established a good relationship with Winters. We established a T & R treaty and traded numerous tech until just prior to turn 2402.0, at which time he abruptly quit the game. Our arrangement up till then was to trade tech of equal value.

He was a very inexperienced player and I kind of took him under my wing. Talk of the blind leading the blind! I had just entered the PBW scene myself.

My impression is that he was very young and susceptible to harassment. I suspect, Stalin saw/felt that too. Even though I suggested to Winters to take mines as a trade, he choose something else from my inventory and this would haunt him a few turns later when Stalin would rummage through his systems.

Just previously, Stalin tried to rummage through my systems. Asking him to get out didn’t work. Telling him in no uncertain terms did. I was prepared to go to war if he continued. And he knew it.

He then turned his attentions to Winters and his incursions severely unhinged Winters. He had no protection at all (no military ships, WP’s etc), having directed his resources towards the growth of his Empire. My giving him mines, his producing the mines and launching them would have taken a number of turns which he felt he didn’t have.

Stalin also pressured him to agree to a military alliance (I only had a T & R). He also pressured Winters to give him some of his colonists. I know all this this because Winters and I had a flurry of e-mails about his problem (about 30).

I couldn’t help Winters as I didn’t have the ships to contest Stalin who was maxed out on aggressiveness and defensiveness (with Berzerker) and mine was set at 100%/Scientists.

Suddenly Winters just quit. And although he claimed another reason, I feel certain the real reason was he was not able to cope with Stalin demands.

Now I find out that Stalin and the replacement for Winters are friends with both living in Russia.

It is most likely that Stalin would ask a player to join who was sympathetic to him. That being the case, there was probably nothing I could do to convince the replacement player to prefer an alliance with me in preference to Stalin. And I did try.

The result was, I was blockaded for something like 40 turns (give or take a turn or two). A horrible situation but I stuck it out.

What did I learn? Beg, bribe, do anything to get a friend of mine to replace a player who leaves. Maybe undertake to reciprocate to help the friend when a player leaves one of his games. Better that than to risk being blockaded
again. Or risk having a powerful alliance on my flank.

Not a good thing, I think you will agree. Because then my friend and I can harass other players.

So, IMO there is a major difference between a new player and replacement players.

New players take the luck of the draw and friends can be scattered all over the map leaving them vulnerable to attack. Replacement players are able to group themselves and as a group can harass other players to quit and if they refuse to quit (like me), co-ordinate their resources to attack that player.

This is a potential area of abuse and I feel I was on the receiving end of it with Stalin. I made numerous attempts to communicate with Winters replacement but only received silence as a response.

How to solve it? One way is to have the AI play the replacement player, maxed out to its best ability. Definitely not as interesting as a human replacement player, but it will avoid this type of abuse.

If I had a choice between selecting having an AI who may or may not be antagonist towards me and an antagonistic player allied with another antagonistic player, I would definitely select the former.

If I hadn’t been attacked and then blockaded from the other players for 40 turns by a powerful alliance, I wouldn’t feel so strongly about the potential abuse.

However, I don’t want to ask a friend to take over an empire on my flank just so I can feel more secure. That doesn’t seem right or ethical. But not doing so means I am exposed to the very real risk of having a powerful alliance on my flank.

I would rather play a game where if a player leaves, the empire is taken over by an AI. Then it is up to the AI to decide whether I be friend or foe.