Stealth and Scattering Armor bonus

[DirectorTsaarx]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

quote:

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I don't think SJ was claiming the 187.5 value was the break-even point, that was just a specific value for the effect of an extra 15% combat defense bonus, and he was comparing that to the break-even point he'd originally referenced.
(yadda yadda yadda - editing my own original quote... )

Actually I was. That number takes into account the change in hitpoints, and the ECM bonus of 15%.

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Great. Now I'M getting confused by the whole thing. And I'm an engineer - I should be used to arcane cost-benefit analysis formulas!

[Fyron]

I know he can be annoying at times. "Ragging" is something he seems to particularly enjoy. My prefered method of pointing it out to him is to speak to others about him in a slightly disapointed, patronizing way. The way you would speak about a particularly rambunctious child to other adults. Discussing it with him standing right there, but not directly acknoledging him as if he isn't. He hates that.

If I was as petty as Geo, I would respond (with more than this not-such-a-response) to that. As I am not, all you get is

[Ward]

Suicide Junkie:
That depends on what you want to calculate. The damage dealt is the damage your enemy deals you. I intenionally left it there so that you can also include enemy's firepower(that also an answer to your question). This can give you more accurate view. Yes, the formula works with amplifying and decreasing basic damage. At first I thought two things that later turned out to be false: That I can't use "virtual hit points" instead of to hit(ot to defend) %. With the second I will not bother anyone until someone finds that possibility(It has something to do with very big or low chances of hitting). I hope I answered your question well enough.

[ March 20, 2003, 19:03: Message edited by: Ward ]

[Suicide Junkie]

If you are trying to maximize the defense strength of your ship (using a given amount of space, of course), then the amount of damage the enemy fires at you per round dosen't matter for shields and stealth/scattering armor.

And whenever the to-hit chances get locked at 1% or 99%, then our formulae will certainly be off.

[PvK]

These are good formulae if you know enough math to appreciate what they are saying as a general principle. In practice though, you almost never have a reliable figure for enemy's chance to hit you, and even if you had full information, it's not a single number, but a probablility distribution, and a different one for each enemy design, experience level, weapon, etc.

So, this illustrates the theory, and would be a reasonable system for an improved AI to use, and if you're really confused and think this will help your designs, it'll give you something to give you advice, but there isn't really a valid formula that will tell you what the best thing to do is.

PvK

[Ward]

Suicide junkie:

If you are trying to maximize the defense strength of your ship (using a given amount of space, of course), then the amount of damage the enemy fires at you per round dosen't matter for shields and stealth/scattering armor.

Yes, you are right. But you can eliminate it if you wish. Just make an equation you know is right and cut the "damage dealt" off. The formula was meant to be as universal as possible. It could certainly use much refining but I thought this should suffice for your comparisons.

And whenever the to-hit chances get locked at 1% or 99%, then our formulae will certainly be off.

Again you are right. But if you begin to count the formula for such extreme circumstances, you should also count how many times enemy fires at you (and the math of many chances - two chances of 5% aren't one chance of 10% - is much more difficult and I think it's useless in this example).

You showed some interest in that so tomorrow I'll post here a complete Version taking everithing into consideration (I'll look at it at home. Now am at work and I don't have much time).

P.S.: Excuse my English, please. :-))

[Suicide Junkie]

True, although hulls and most weapons have no accuracy bonuses, and designs will typically include the maximum attack bonuses possible with the available tech.

Given the range your ships fight at, and some knowledge of the enemy's tech level, you can get a pretty accurate baseline.

The true break-even point will be a fuzzy region around the calculated point, but if you are well on one side or the other, you can be fairly certain which of the two options (ECM-armor or shields) is best.

There are also missiles, talismans and rammers to worry about, as well as one-shot-one-kill weapons.

Given the complexity of the game, formulae like this will be a guide, rather than a law.
Before I went through the formula, I had no idea when it would be worth putting Stealth armor on a ship