Recycle Old Threads Drive Canceled!

eddieballgame · #1 May 11th, 2003, 05:48 AM

Sorry about the link thing. Anyways, I understand there is some "clicking" in this game. Supposedly the Patch is addressing this area also.
I like & play numerous TBS games such as Civ III PTW, Alpha Centauri, HMM series, AOW II.
All excellent. MOO3 is different, & will agree not to everyones liking. I certainly didn't mean to try & "sell" the game. I just wanted to give MY accurate description of what I have encountered with MOO3.
BTW GO REDSOX!!!

eddieballgame · #2 May 11th, 2003, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You posted this eddie:
"MOO3 was designed to make multiplay a feasible option for this genre."

This implies that it has not been feasible before MOO3 came out, which is wholely false.

My statements are not "opinions", they are observations of how the game works. Your "opinions" that you cited as proof are certainly not proof of anything except that is what you think.

Fair enough, to me the "proof" is "in the pudding". In your opinion how "good" is SEIV Online, or "hotseat" for that matter. I recently
received SEIV & it looks very good. Have yet to play it though. Thanks for your input.

Fyron · #3 May 11th, 2003, 06:00 AM

I don't have anyone to play SE4 hotseat with, so I can't answer that. I know there are plenty of people that are satisfied with it though. SE4 is very good in PBW play. It's the only way to play the game IMO!

TCP/IP works well with 2 players, but gets slower than PBW with 3 or more, due to how it handles turns.

Proof means one thing, and one thing only. It is not a subjective term.

[ May 11, 2003, 05:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

eddieballgame · #4 May 11th, 2003, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I don't have anyone to play SE4 hotseat with, so I can't answer that. I know there are plenty of people that are satisfied with it though. SE4 is very good in PBW play. It's the only way to play the game IMO! TCP/IP works well with 2 players, but gets slower than PBW with 3 or more, due to how it handles turns.

Proof means one thing, and one thing only. It is not a subjective term.

Thank you for the info & your candor, till we "meet" again.

raynor · #5 May 11th, 2003, 09:51 AM

Regarding Imperator Fyron's comments on facts vs. opinions:

Umm... the SE series has had multiplayer quite feasable for many many years.

This is an opinion. The term 'quite feasable' is arbitrary and subject to opinion. Someone else might say that the multiplayer was not quite feasable.

The GUI is not "percieved as clumsy", it is undeniably clumsy. There are too many obtuse subwindows to go through to change something that will be changed back by the AI ministers. There are too many useless bits of information portrayed that you can never have an effect on, so there is no point in cluttering the game with them. Most of this bits are not explained at all, so you have no idea what the numbers mean. So, they are even more clutter, making the GUI even clumsier. Also, the control interface is less than stellar. It is horrid looking too, but that isn't part of it's clumsiness.

This also is an opinion. A fact would be something on the order of: If you click button 'X', then window 'Y' shows up. But just because you don't "like" something doesn't make it a fact. It makes it an opinion. A fact is something that is incontrovertible. If the word "like" or "dislike" enters in, then it is an opinion and not a fact.

MOO3 does not in any way accurately simulate a space empire. It is not meant as a simulator, but as a game. So saying it is a good simulator IS NOT saying that it is a good game; it is saying the contrary.

This also is an opinion.

Also, Quiksilver's propaganda about their beast of a game is not a valid source at all. What they say is irrelevant when it quite clearly contradicts what actually happens. And, the viceroys change orders immediately quite often, not after many turns. Also, turning them off actually does not do a whole lot; they still screw up everything you try to do anyways. They are very spiteful.

This also is an opinion. What are you going to use to determine what is a valid source? Without hard proof regarding the validity of a number of sources, it is clearly your opinion regarding what is or is not a valid source.

BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with most of your opinions. But they are just that, opinions.

[ May 11, 2003, 08:51: Message edited by: raynor ]

oleg · #6 May 11th, 2003, 10:12 AM

Common, Raynor ! Do not start the whole philosophical debate "what is the truth" and how objective can we be !

No sane person would argue that games like Moo2 and SEIII/IV had good multiplayer long before Moo3 was conceived.

Chronon · #7 May 11th, 2003, 05:19 PM

Since this isn't Plato's Pub, I'll leave aside the question of fact and opinion. Besides, Fyron and I have probably already met our philosophical debate quota for this year.

But I did want to put in my opinion of MoO3 and ask a question about GalCiv.

I got MoO3 soon after it's release (as a gift), but because of the spectacularly negative reviews I didn't play it right away. Once I did open the box and began playing - with greatly diminished expectations - I found that I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would. There are some things I don't like: the interface (looks nice, but way too many clicks to access information), the ship design area (I like seeing the components, like in SE4), the ship sets (Atrocities, you are needed!), and the combat interface (again, a UI problem). I haven't played it long enough to really tell, but I've also heard the AI is very bad.

But I do like some things about it: the economic system, the idea of real-time combat (if not it's execution), the leaders (I like the role-playing aspect of them), the espionage system, the three dimensional star map (why not 3D tactical combat?), and the system maps. The economic system, in my opinion, is the best thing about the game. I know it's hard to say what's realistic about a science fiction game, but for me it has a very authentic feel. I like the complex interplay between resource production, industrial production, and the imperial budget. I hope some of these things find their way into SE5.

My question about GalCiv - Is the AI as good as the reviews say? I've been looking for a truly challenging single player game, without much luck (I know it's hard to write a decent AI for very complex games of strategy, but I keep hoping).