How best to use Null Space weapons?

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by Joe Cool:
Also, are there any super potent weapons combos out there? Anything particularly effective for a race with talismans?

It all depends on what you're fighting, how close you want to get, how advanced your weaponry is, etc.

But hands down, the deadliest thing with a talisman is a wave-motion gun at long range. It's equal-damage at all ranges (140 dmg @ 12 range), and is guaranteed to hit with your talisman.

One of my favorite tricks with a talisman, is shooting down fighters with ordinary weapons. Use a mount on an Anti-Proton Beam, and you can pick off fighters before they even get the chance to see you

[Cyrien]

I don't much like the talisman... but that topic has just about been beaten to death. So let's leave it there.

As for effective racial weapons. I like them alot.

I usually take temporal and sometimes psychic. The disruptive power of a ship equipped with both allegiance converters and computer viruses is not to be understated.
Shielding you say? That is what Shield Accelerators are for 1 extra range and 30 more damage at all ranges for just a little more cost and equivalent in all other fields. Or you can go for the Time Distortion Burst with 30 normal damage and range of 7 (equal to shield depleter) but quad damage to shields. A lil less damage to the shields but with the ability to do damage to the ship as well.

Wave Motion gun? How about the Tachyon cannon faster fire rate less supplies more even cost distribution, plus 20kt smaller size and only 1 lower range and lil less damage per shot. And then there is the mental singularity generator with less supply use better cost distribution again 1 slower fire rate but even more damage and the same range and kt space as the wave motion gun. If you are going for the big starter shot to finish it off the mental singularity generator is the ultimate weapon.

As for null space projectors... how about Temporal Shifters? Available at a much much lower cost minerals 1000 rads 1000 for null space and 500 minerals 200 rads for temporal shifter and a lower research cost. 1 lower range 10 lower damage but it doesn't guzzle supplies like the null space does. An excellent early weapon.

As for the dominance of APB or PPB and DUC. Well... in the early game DUC is great. PPB is pretty good as well but can rapidly become much less effective with the onset of phased shielding.
It is outranged by the APB and out damaged and is more expensive to produce. How about the Time Distortion burst? Well it has 1 better range than PPB 1 less than APB and 2 better than DUC.
In the damage field things start getting complicated. All of them beat the DUC for damage but can't be researched as fast and early as the DUC, except for the Time Distortion Burst, which does 10 less damage than the DUC. At range the APB does 45 damage and the PPB 50. But once again the PPB is outranged. At the same range as the PPB maxes out the APB does equal damage as the PPB and at close ranges MORE. So how can the piddly TDB (Time Distortion Burst) compete? Simple. To be truly effective the APB and PPB both need shield depleters late game. The TDB doesn't.

Take Battleship X:

1 Master Computer, 5 engines, 2 shield gens for 750 shields, Multi Track, ECM, Targeting, Quantum Gen, 2 PD, Solar Sail, Stealth and Scattering Armor

THEN:
1 Shield Accelerator
7 TDBs
for 3060 damage against shields
and 630 against the ship.

Total Ship Cost - 19550 min 1000 org 11200 rads
SY3 - 7 turns to build and TSY3 - 5 turns to build

OR
4 SDs
5 APBs
for 2475 damage against shields
and 675 against the ship.

Total Ship Cost - 19950 min 1000 org 5000 rad
SY3 - 7 turns to build and TSY3 - 5 turns to build

OR
sacrifice the Quantum Generator or a PD and have
3 SDs
6 APBs
for 2160 shield dam
and 810 ship dam

Ship Cost minus QG - 19000 min 1000 org 4740 rads
SY3 - 7 turns to build and TSY3 - 5 turns to build

all damages at max range.
note that for APB the shield dam does include the APB basic damage and for TDB it includes quad TDB damage.

What this shows is that at max range... they are pretty even. At closer range the APB slaughters. And all for the same basic resource costs and build times with the edge in ALL build times going to Temporal based on the Space Yard they have.

So a TDB ship at max range can compete at close it can't.

BUT these were simple ship designes without taking into account what weapons, defenses and strategies the other guy may be using.

The best strategy is generally a mix based on each opponent. As an example none of the above battleships would Last ten seconds against an organic parasite ship. And of course this doesn't take into account other bonuses such as Temporal Predictors with an extra 30% combat ability for defending ships. This would of course allow the Temporals to hit better at max ranges.

The conclusion then?

There is no best SUPER ULTIMATE STRATEGY THAT KILLS ALL! Based on what the other guy uses you have to change what you use.

[ May 02, 2003, 15:54: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

[Dingocat85]

Originally posted by Gwaihir:
I was a big fan of racial weapons for a while, but now I tend to use the standard. I haven't really found a racial weapon that tops the standard set if well planned - - - does anyone have a different opinion on this?

IMO, There are two outstanding racial weapons:

1) The Allegiance Subverter:
Once they get Ion Engines III, virtually *every* AI ship fits itself with a Self-Destruct Device, rendering Boarding Parties useless, if you want to keep your ship. And even if you want to destroy both your ship and theirs by boarding their S-D equipped ship, you still have to get through their shields.
With the Allegiance Subverter, *any* ship with a bridge can be yours - SD or no SD, shields or no shields, Security Station or none at all - and if timed correctly (fire rate 25), you can capture two ships per combat, per weapon!
And if you play a low-tech, tech-trading-impossible game like me (all Ice & Gas Colonization Techs I needed to know, I got from analyzing enemy Colony ships ), the AI will never use Master Computers, so you should be safe using the Allegiance Subverter all game long.
[/sales pitch]

2) Organic Armor:
Yes, armor can be a weapon.
Equip a nice, big ship (Battleship, etc.) with, say, 10-15 Organic Armors - if you haven't reached that Tech Level yet, a few Destroyers with 3-4 Organic Armors will do just fine. Then, Ram your target of choice (which should only damage the armor), wait one turn for your Armor to regenerate, then ram some more. So long you keep the boarding parties away, the Organic-Armored Rammer is tough to beat.

[Hunkpapa]

Originally posted by Gwaihir:
waitwaitwait, engine destroyers don't skip shields anymore? do they at least skip armor?
(shows how thoroughly i've researched special weapons)

Someone please clarify do they or don't they skip shields?

[Cyrien]

Originally posted by Dingocat85:

1) The Allegiance Subverter:
...timed correctly (fire rate 25), you can capture...
...the AI will never use Master Computers, so you should be safe using the Allegiance Subverter all game long.

2) Organic Armor:
So long you keep the boarding parties away, the Organic-Armored Rammer is tough to beat.

1> Fire rate 30 not 25. The most you can capture is 1 per combat per ship unless you are using a mod. Also the AI will use master computers. Was just playing a psychic game and half way through my allegiance subverter fleet got wiped out by AI with Master Computer ships.

2> Organic armor raming ships are easy to defeat. After they ram once they lose all their shields if they had any. Then just fire away with engine destroyers. A ramming ship that can't move isn't a threat.

None of the destroys specific component X weapons skip shields anymore.

[Gwaihir]

Re: shield skipping/not - thanks Cyrien

Re: TDBs
I used to always play temporal, because the TDB really is very effective - but it actually takes more research to get TDBs maxed than it does to get APBs and SD maxed, which makes a slightly better ship. True, shield accelerators instead of depleters would be a great addition, but not essential. The modular type is more flexible, too - i can alter the ratios based on how much my enemies use shields. (plus, i get 1500 more RPs . . .)

I agree tho that there is no one killer strategy, unlike in SE3, there are so many variables that any design has a counter-design.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Cyrien:
None of the destroys specific component X weapons skip shields anymore.

WHAT ? Shield generator killers do not skip shields anymore !? Or Computer virus ? Please tell me you are kidding !