Fight Dirty?

jimbob · #1 May 9th, 2003, 02:00 AM

Hey, you're playing a non-gold game right? so who is at the top of the turn ladder? 'Cause if it isn't a gold game, then Warp Point camping isn't going to do you any good:

If he is higher in the game turn order, then when he comes through the warp point, he will get first shot on you = you die (sorry, nice knowning you

)

If you are higher on the game turn ladder, then when you go through the warp point you will get first shot.

Then the only advantage to letting him come to you is that he'll run into your mines. conversely the only thing holding you back from attacking him is that you'll need to build a bunch of minesweepers.

hope that clairifies things. I just think it would be a shame for you to build up and camp on your side of the warp point only to have him come through and get the first shot... better you sit back one space from the warp point, let him come through and then engage him in combat. Besides, if you back away you may be able to coax him into your minefield before he has sufficient minesweepers ready

Ed Kolis · #2 May 9th, 2003, 02:46 AM

Hey... you don't have warp openers do you?

I bet he'd NEVER expect that...

Of course they're fairly expensive to research and build, so if you don't already have a lot of research points it's probably not worth bothering with, but it's a thought...

Also remember that there can only be 1 warp point between 2 systems, so if you're in Utekra and he's across the warp point in Wertuy you can't open a warp from Utekra to Wertuy... but you could open a warp from one of your other systems to Wertuy, or open a warp from one of your systems to his unguarded inner systems (if you have warp openers of the appropriate range

)

Pooka · #3 May 9th, 2003, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Hey... you don't have warp openers do you?

I bet he'd NEVER expect that...

Of course they're fairly expensive to research and build, so if you don't already have a lot of research points it's probably not worth bothering with, but it's a thought...

Also remember that there can only be 1 warp point between 2 systems, so if you're in Utekra and he's across the warp point in Wertuy you can't open a warp from Utekra to Wertuy... but you could open a warp from one of your other systems to Wertuy, or open a warp from one of your systems to his unguarded inner systems (if you have warp openers of the appropriate range )

I've got Stellar Manip 1. Pondering going to 2 but weapons tech seems more important just yet. I might be able to get SM3 from someone else though. It may be worth trying.

Pooka · #4 May 9th, 2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimbob:
Hey, you're playing a non-gold game right? so who is at the top of the turn ladder? 'Cause if it isn't a gold game, then Warp Point camping isn't going to do you any good:

If he is higher in the game turn order, then when he comes through the warp point, he will get first shot on you = you die (sorry, nice knowning you )

If you are higher on the game turn ladder, then when you go through the warp point you will get first shot.

Then the only advantage to letting him come to you is that he'll run into your mines. conversely the only thing holding you back from attacking him is that you'll need to build a bunch of minesweepers.

hope that clairifies things. I just think it would be a shame for you to build up and camp on your side of the warp point only to have him come through and get the first shot... better you sit back one space from the warp point, let him come through and then engage him in combat. Besides, if you back away you may be able to coax him into your minefield before he has sufficient minesweepers ready

I think I'm in front of him on the turn list. I'm above him on the list displayed when you login.

tbontob · #5 May 9th, 2003, 09:21 AM

Hmmmm.... In gold, it appears the aggressor appears to have a chance of shooting first. I just posted this in the thread "who shoots first?" a few days ago.

============================================

It gets wierder.

Did some testing.

I had the enemy sit on the other side of the WP.

My ships were faster 13 vs 12.

On the next turn, my ships shot first.

Tested this a number of times and my ships always shot first.

Messed around and added some 12 movement ships to the fleet.

They shot first.

Went back to 13 movement ships and they shot first.

I suspect the defendor normally shoots first when sitting on the WP, but a random element sometimes gives the aggressor the right to shoot first when they are faster.

==========================================

The test was done in simultaneous mode.

I am making the assumption that a faster fleet may give them the right of shooting first at times.

Maybe if I tried a large number of tests, I would have an example of a equal speed fleet or slower fleet coming through a WP would shoot first.

jimbob · #6 May 9th, 2003, 04:46 PM

Ok, that's a relief. I hadn't read your position on the ladder in the description(s) you gave.

In that case, satelites should do you quite well, as should fighters. For the fighters you definitely want the heavy weapons, cause if you've got first shot at point blank range, you'll absolutely waste him Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhahaahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah ahaha
hahahahahahahah
hahahaha
(etc...)

Somebody else suggested it, but make sure you get those sensors up a few levels. It'll make a huge difference. Oh, and as to the discussion of the armors and cloaking; the 5% bonus to defence is not cummulative though. If you have one or twenty of the stealth armor on your ship, you'll still only get a 5% defence bonus (don't get me wrong, the 5% is definitely worth it though!). You'll want to put both the stealth (5%) and the other special armor (5%) on your ships. Just think - if he comes through the warp point you'll get first shot and destroy a chunk of his fleet, then he'll miss with ~10% of the shots he's got left.

[ May 09, 2003, 15:48: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Pooka · #7 May 9th, 2003, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimbob:
Ok, that's a relief. I hadn't read your position on the ladder in the description(s) you gave.

In that case, satelites should do you quite well, as should fighters. For the fighters you definitely want the heavy weapons, cause if you've got first shot at point blank range, you'll absolutely waste him
Somebody else suggested it, but make sure you get those sensors up a few levels. It'll make a huge difference. Oh, and as to the discussion of the armors and cloaking; the 5% bonus to defence is not cummulative though. If you have one or twenty of the stealth armor on your ship, you'll still only get a 5% defence bonus (don't get me wrong, the 5% is definitely worth it though!). You'll want to put both the stealth (5%) and the other special armor (5%) on your ships. Just think - if he comes through the warp point you'll get first shot and destroy a chunk of his fleet, then he'll miss with ~10% of the shots he's got left.

About emissive armor, does it really mean that fighters using SmallDU3s can't hurt my ship? (They do less than the prevented damage.)

Does that mean that his group of 242 small fighters won't be able to hurt ships with that armor? (evil ideas brewing here)