this is a thread to attract SE4 forumers to the first Dungeon Oddessy roleplay thread

[narf poit chez BOOM]

you do realize now where going to have to do a financial revelution as well as a magical one, don't you?

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
you do realize now where going to have to do a financial revelution as well as a magical one, don't you?

The transition could be smoother than you might think; at first, the only a few things happen: lead suddenly beocomes very valuable to mages, mages become more powerful, and mages get a new supply of gold. However, it is a destructive use of the lead, so over time there is progressively less lead and more gold in the system, making lead rare and gold common. Moreover, as people catch on that mages, especially the power hungry variety, are willing to pay well for lead (the process would return 95% of the weight of the lead in gold, so they would have much gold available for buying lead) lead is going to go up in value overall as people begin to charge more, and gold down in the same as it becomes more common. This would accelerate as magic becomes more commonly known, and after a while you'd get a gold/lead standard debate similar to the gold/silver standard debate that happened in the US a long while back. However, the above factors would continue to press the issue, and sooner or later people would start switching currencies, although there would likely be a transitional period where both made for perfectly acceptable currency. It could readily be a slow change, rather than a sudden revolution.

Besides, it may not affect MOTMA much; if only a few know the technique, it would cause no more impact than a few productive gold mines. The value of gold and lead would change locally, but globally things would stay about the same for a long, long time, unless the technique spreads.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

a bunch of power-hungry mages won't want to get there hands on a new power source? gonna have to keep it a secret in that case.

[ August 31, 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
a bunch of power-hungry mages won't want to get there hands on a new power source? gonna have to keep it a secret in that case.

Oh, they will, but there are some catches - if there are only a small handful of mages that can, the value of lead stays down and the value of gold stays up, both of which are very good financial incentives for that small handful to maintain the knoweledge as a secret. Moreover, if only a small handful know how, that handful can dominate those mages that don't reasonably easily, which grants the mages who know how power over their fellows who don't. There is as strong of incentive for the power-hungry mages to maintain it as a sectet as there is for other power-hungry mages to discover that secret - but the ones in the know have the advantage, as they have a lot more energy to play around with; unless the mindset of cooperation and information sharing is already present or becomes present, the situation would reach equilibrium with a very small number of mages knowing how to burn lead. Most likely, the knoweledge would die with that handful.

Also, there is another catch Jack hasn't mentioned, as it isn't important to him: even if the process is 99.9% efficient, there is still the matter of a waste energy release of the rough equivalent of burning 12,500 gallons of kerosene for every pound of lead converted, or the energy of about 430 pounds of TNT. Jack's immortal - he can just jump in a large body of water, do the conVersion there, and repair the burns that would normally be fatal (the water would absorb much of the energy, but the resultant steam would push away the rest for a bit; anything nearby would still be sorely burned). Those without really good healing skills and the ability to deal with a lack of air or without invulnerability to heat and radiation are going to be at a severe disadvantage when converting lead, as almost nothing could survive the inferno intact. This will sharply limit the energy most could gain by the process.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

a magical nueclear reaction chamber...but still, most mages wouldn't have the power or ability to make one.

[Jack Simth]

A magical nuclear reaction, anyway. The spell that does the conVersion includes the energy harvest, but it can't catch all the energy. The energy that escapes rules out most mages as surviving burning the lead, unless Jack's medium or advanced immortality techniques are known by the mage. It also rules out doing it remotely by enchantment, as the medium the spell is on wouldn't survive. The caster must be present, and must remain throughout, so the ability to ghost is pretty much required. To get good use out of the process, one needs to be able to return from ghost form to living form..

[narf poit chez BOOM]

no, i mean an actual magical nuclear reaction chamber, built like a nuclear reacter.

[Jack Simth]

Ah, you mean to get around being at the center of the bLast? Possibly doable, but modern nuclear reactors don't have internal detonations - they accelerate radioactive decay and use the radiation to heat water in order to drive a steam engine, which is hooked up to an electric generator.

Of course, having the power generation in a building (a fixed location) would be a decidedly limiting factor on how much territory a mage relying on it could control, wouldn't it? Also, it would be a pretty major undertaking, as the physical building needs to be constructed, enchanted to absorb the useable energy, and enchanted to withstand the unuseable energy - likely without a major power source during construction. It would probably end up being a guild installation, not under the control of any one mage.

Interesting thought.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

and if the alchemists and psionic's learn that the mage's guild is going to get more powerfull, they may have problems.

way i've been thinking, mage's are most powerfull in this world, but there's no real reason. on the other hand, two guild's just as powerfull, no real conflict...could be a good solution. both other guild's lean on the mage's to forget the whole thing...at least, until they find out a way to boost there power.

unfortuenatly, the only thing i can think of for psionic's is crystal's and my sense of cliche's doesn't like that.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
and if the alchemists and psionic's learn that the mage's guild is going to get more powerfull, they may have problems.

way i've been thinking, mage's are most powerfull in this world, but there's no real reason. on the other hand, two guild's just as powerfull, no real conflict...could be a good solution. both other guild's lean on the mage's to forget the whole thing...at least, until they find out a way to boost there power.

Impregnate a structure with enough damping dust and the mages' guild can scarecly do a thing about it. Coat an explosive potion in damping dust and the mages' guild can't touch it nor see it coming magically.

And remember, the process started out as alchemy, with the full release of energy (5% of the mass - that's about five times the release of a normal nuke, per pound of active material) - the alchemists could take out a reactor quite easily, as it uses the principals of alchemy.

Hang on - Psionicists are immune to alchemical defenses; mages have spells that block psionics, and alchemists make powder that neutralize magic. Skilled/powerful of each can get around the restrictions (mage overloads dust, psi catches mage off gaurd, alchemist uses exploding potions), but still - it's a rock/paper/scissors situation, isn't it? That could lead to a balance quite quickly; psionicists aren't a threat to the mages' guild, but the mages' guild will hire them if need be to get the alchemists off their back. The mage's guild has good reason to keep the psionicists available, and aren't threatend by them. The alchemists' guild isn't threatened by the mages' guild, but will hire them if need by to get the psionicists off their back. The alchemists have good reason to keep the mages available. The psionicists aren't threatened by the alchemists, but will hire them to get the mages' guild off their backs if need be, and so has good reason to keep the alchemists available. Hmm....

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
unfortuenatly, the only thing i can think of for psionic's is crystal's and my sense of cliche's doesn't like that.

Some ideas:

Hive mind: similar to a circle of mages, but for telepaths. Increses the functional distance of psionic effects and their power (harder to resist mental influence, more mass can be moved via telekenisis, et cetera), as well as pooling abilities, knoweledge, and skill from those involved in the hive mind.

Mindswap: A forbidden practice used by some skilled telepaths to prolong life. The psi trades bodies with the victim, keeping all abilities of the target based on physiology, but not their skills, memories, nor abilities based on mental ability.

Borrow skill: The psi temporarily borrows a skill from the target. Using the skill requires an active telepathic connection to the target, but it does not inherently alert the target to the psi's presence.

Lend skill: The psi temporarily lends a skill to the target. Using the skill requires an acive telepathic connection to the target.

Learn skill: The psi learns a skill from a target, without the target's knowledge. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to learn a skill depends on the complexity of the skill, the skill level of the target, and the skill level of the psi.

Teach skill: The psi teaches a skill to the target. Requires telepathic contact with the target, but the learned skill is permanent. The time required to teach a skill depends on the complexity of the skill and the skill level of the psi.

Rider: The psi can hitch a ride inside another's mind. The psi is limited to their own psionic or magical abilities for information, communication, or action, and does not have access to the target's memories, skills, senses, actions, et cetera unless the psi would be able to do so under normal circumstances via psionics or magic. Hitching a ride on another requires that the target be in telepathic contact with the psi when the ride is hitched; after that, the psi is not present in his/her body, and uses the target as the base for any range determination, including getting back into the psi's original body or jumping to another host.

Borrow senses: similar to borrow skill; the psi sees what the target sees, feels what the target feels, hears what the target hears, et cetera. This is limited to physical senses only; for psionics, see relay.

Lend senses: similar to borrow senses; the target gains access to all the psi's senses that the psi cares to lend.

Relay: allows a psi to act as a relay for another psi's abilities, allowing the distant psi to use their abilities as though they were at the relay's location. Multiple relays can be used. The psi whose abilities are being relayed must be within the relay's range.

Psionic projection: allows a psi to separate from their body, and travel without it. The body is unoccupied while the psi is away. The psi's skill determines how long the psi can go without a body, and how long the psi's body can go without a mind. The psi can rest as a rider, above, if the psi has that ability. While projecting, the psi can only interact with the normal world via psionic abilities or magic, as per rider, above.

Clairvoyance: The ability to see at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

Claiaudiance: The ability to hear at a distance. Very useful for riders or projectors.

Clair(other): Of course there is one of these to match each base sense, but I don't remember all the names....

Psychometry: The art of learning the past of an object, person, or place available to the psi. Skill determines how far into the past the psi can read, power determines how close the target has to be to qualify as available.

Possess: A forbidden practice. The psi takes full control of the target, including the target's senses, skills and abilities (mundane, magic, or psionic). The victim does not remember anything from the moment of possession to the moment of release.

Imprint: The psi can imprint a memory or message into a physical object, which is then easily read by any psi with psychometry (similar to reading and writing, but for psi's only and based primarily on memory; any sense impression or thought can be imprinted).

Dreamwalk: Allows a psi to use any of their abilities normally under concious control while sleeping or unconcious (but not if killed).

[ September 02, 2003, 06:41: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]