A thought on the Talisman / Live on Pay-Per-View: Geo vs. Fyron

Fyron · #1 July 14th, 2003, 10:16 PM

If you allow them to rush you early on or you allow the other players to all gang up on you, then obviously you have not been playing very well at all.

rdouglass · #2 July 14th, 2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If you allow them to rush you early on or you allow the other players to all gang up on you, then obviously you have not been playing very well at all.

IF, sometimes I am totally amazed at the logic you use to justify your position. It doesn't matter what you say, you CAN do everything perfectly and still lose with the Talisman.

What does the things you do have to do with whether the other players are going to gang up on you or not?

geoschmo · #3 July 14th, 2003, 10:20 PM

You cannot control your opponents. You can play a perfect game with the talisman and still lose.

geoschmo · #4 July 14th, 2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdouglass:
IF, sometimes I am totally amazed at the logic you use to justify your position. It doesn't matter what you say, you CAN do everything perfectly and still lose with the Talisman.

I have a feeling that his statments aren't based on logic this time. Perhaps this is one of those times he's playing the devil's advocate.

Geoschmo

gravey101 · #5 July 14th, 2003, 10:25 PM

Well, you can try to buy time with diplomacy as I've done myself a few times, but I would argue that that only works with inexperienced players or with players who aren't really in it for the win. I guess it's also easier to do on a map with lower player density. If I'm playing in a game where I want to compete I will do everything I can possibly can to bring down a religious player before he gets the Talisman, and have generally found it easy to assemble/encourage coalitions and knock those zealots off early.

[ July 14, 2003, 21:27: Message edited by: gravey101 ]

Fyron · #6 July 14th, 2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

IF, sometimes I am totally amazed at the logic you use to justify your position. It doesn't matter what you say, you CAN do everything perfectly and still lose with the Talisman.

I never once said that having the Talisman guarantees victory. But, playing well (with fast expansion and such) combined with the Talisman does guarantee victory in most game situations (except when you get the other players to ally against you, which is nowhere near playing well at all, as diplomacy is a big part of a MP game). Playing well requires expanding faster than your neighbors and then being able to overwhelm them. Otherwise, it is not playing well, but at best playing adequately. Even expanding as fast as them means you will still most likely be able to win with the Talisman because all else being equal, the Talisman ships will win in combat. You just have to form your own alliance and not get them to gang up on you. If you expand slower than them, you are certainly not playing well.

There is a certain point of no return that once you reach, victory is pretty much guaranteed. The Talisman makes reaching this point a lot easier, as your ships are extremely overpowered in combat.

Quote:

What does the things you do have to do with whether the other players are going to gang up on you or not?

You can talk to them and use diplomacy to get some of them on your side. This prevents you from getting ganged up on by a bunch of enemies, as they will have to fight your allies too. So, if you make no effort to gather allies, you aren't playing the game very well, as no matter what, you will fall, talisman or no. Don't let them ally against you. Don't be an overly aggressive evil overlord, and you greatly increase your chances of not being seen as a huge threat. Now, if they still irrationally gang up on you and you never do anything in the game to threaten them, it is probably not a group of players you should play with again, as they are not interested in fair play, only winning at any cost.

spoon · #7 July 14th, 2003, 10:54 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Quote:

Now, if they still irrationally gang up on you and you never do anything in the game to threaten them, it is probably not a group of players you should play with again, as they are not interested in fair play, only winning at any cost.

If the talisman more or less guarantees a win for the talisman player unless his is ganged up on, it is not irrational to gang up on him. Nor is it "unfair" to do so - in fact, it should be expected.