Rules-Conduct-Playing to win-and Gamy moves?

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Erax:
Thermo, let me see if I understood this. You were being attacked by two enemies and you surrendered to one of them. The guy you surrendered to doesn't want to allow it. Is that it ?

I would understand it if the other guy protested your surrender, but the one you surrendered TO ? How does your move harm him ? If he doesn't want to micromanage your planets he can just let them rot and he won't be any worse off than if you had surrendered to your other enemy.

So unless this is a 'role-playing' kind of game, I see no reason why he should be upset with you.

On a more general level, 'gamy' moves cannot usually be prevented. They are a flaw in the system, no one should be blamed individually for them (even if they spoil an entire game). The players and the GM should take their lumps, wise up and make new rules for their next games. Rolling back a turn, in any kind of game, will usually cause a LOT more resentment than it cures.

Yes, but with conditions. He had taken what he wanted (captured a planet) without declaring war. I then declared the war, as it already existed by action. Don’t get me wrong. Any player in the game could have killed me any time they wanted. My main ***** is that a judgment was made to hold the game and a post was made in the game header that was a) not accurate and b) indicated that what I did was a breech of rule or game conduct bad enough to halt the game. There was no rule, and I am unaware of it being a breech, such as surrendering to an ally. And when I protested loudly by email, I was quite frankly, blown off. The post remains and my Last email is unanswered. So here we are.

[Phoenix-D]

Fyron, you'd hate it even more in this game. I'm the fourth place player; I have two ringworlds, a sphereworld, and more in various stages of construction, over 5 million resources being spent per turn, and over 700 construction ques..

[PvK]

Thermo, personally, I would say your move was fine as long as there was no written house rule against it. Is it possible you missed an earlier discussion of this rule by joining late?

In any case, however, the game master has the final say on what is done. It sounds like he has strong feelings about surrender which aren't uncommon. They should be spelled out however, and I agree that it would be a lot more fair to you to discuss it with you first. Now that you know it's an issue to some players, it'd be good to check with game masters before surrendering, even if I wouldn't say you were clearly responsible to do so.

Basically it's a misunderstanding and lack of communication. I don't think anyone should need to have bad feelings about it.

PvK

[Erax]

That is not true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Rolling back the turn to undo the wrong actions causes less resentment than allowing them to stand.

I guess our experiences in this regard are different. Mine have always followed this pattern : one player complains -> everyone else is silent -> GM rolls the turn back -> three players who had been silent now begin complaining about the turn being re-done. The situation proceeds to worsen from then on.

Thermo : I feel this was a flaw of the system; there were unspoken rules which you did not know about. Next time they should be spoken or better yet written down. No one should feel guilty or blame someone else for what happened. Forgive the person who accused you and move on. Easy for me to say because it isn't my reputation, I know, but that is the advice I have to give.

[ July 11, 2003, 22:48: Message edited by: Erax ]

[primitive]

As the player who got the surrender and requested the roll back i guess I have to make some comments.

I do roleplay my race. The Taolosian fight for honor and sport and I try to do everything in character. During the whole "war" I took 1 planet and did not destroy a single ship. There are no way the Taolosians would have accepted a surrender after such a minor skirmish. I do want to win the game, but I also want to do it a manner I can be proud of. You dropping 10+ systems in my lap would make the game less enjoyable for me, so I asked the remaining players if we could roll back the turn and mark your empire dead instead.

I would urge anybody leaving a game to consider how their leaving could make the game fairer and more fun for the remaining players, not the opposite.

[Erax]

Ok, the issue is becoming clear. I don't see any ill-will here, only a misunderstanding and different views on how to play the game.

Thermo : do you agree that, once you left the game, any roll-backs they did are no longer your worry ? Let them sort out their problems the way they want.

Primitive : do you recognize that you, or the GM, may have posted something using a poor choice of words that may have upset Thermo ? Are you willing to say that there was no ill-will involved on your part ?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Erax:

quote:

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That is not true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Rolling back the turn to undo the wrong actions causes less resentment than allowing them to stand.

I guess our experiences in this regard are different. Mine have always followed this pattern : one player complains -> everyone else is silent -> GM rolls the turn back -> three players who had been silent now begin complaining about the turn being re-done. The situation proceeds to worsen from then on.

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I always force everyone to be involved in the discussion before any actions are taken. If you do not speak your mind now, you have absolutely no right to complain later.