SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Pax:
Um. If it's a simple thing like making sure the AI uses both regular combat sensors AND the Talisman ... wouldn't it be possible to simply include updated AI for the stock races, with the balance mod ... ?

That'd work WRT the QR, as well.

You could, but would you need to? The point of my comment that you quoted is that the stock AI's would work quite well with no changes at all. At least for these two changes.

Geoschmo

[spoon]

Originally posted by Rollo:

Here is another proposal for PPB. Similar to Geo's, but with range reduction. Btw, this is copied from the DevnullMod data files. I consider this quite balanced.

...

Weapon Damage At Rng := 60 55 55 55 50 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

With stats like those, why ever choose the Meson BLaster? Compare PPB V to MB VI, adjusted for size:

PPB: 60 55 55 55 50 50
MB: 52 52 52 52 52 52

Adjusted cost is:
PPB: 500 mineral, 300 rad
MB: 450 mineral, 180 rad

The PPB is significantly better at point blank, and about the same at max range. And the PPB skips shields This is a huge advantage in the mid game.

Maybe increase the Rad cost even more for the PPB, or reduce the damage some at level 5. As is, it just out-powers everything else in the mid-game by a very large margin.

[geoschmo]

[quote]Originally posted by spoon:

With stats like those, why ever choose the Meson BLaster? Compare PPB V to MB VI, adjusted for size:

Yes but you are ignoring cost and research in that comparison. Well, maybe not ignoring cost, but discounting it for sure. By increasing the research costs for the PPB as most people are suggesting you allow the MB player to get to the upper level weapon much sooner then the PPB player. Even as it is now the MB player will have MB 2 to 4 before the PPB player even starts researching PPB because of the extra research involved in getting Physics 2. Raising the research costs and lowering the range of the eraly PPB pushes them back into thte late mid game before they start becoming a factor. Which gives the MB more time to be a decent weapon choice.

In retrospect perhaps Malfador should have pushed the energy stream weapons to Physics 2 and the Phased energy weapons back to physics 3. Making a change like that now though would cause some problems with the AI research files for sure.

In the end though yes the PBB catches and passes it on a damage per KT space ratio. I don't think that is neccesarily a bad thing. Even then though it's a more expensive weapon, so the MB player should be able to build more ships then the PPB player. The cost difference doesn't seem much, but multiplied by the number of weapons per ship it can make a significant difference in fleet size.

There are other ways to acchieve balance besides damage/Kt ratio and range.

Geoschmo

[ July 24, 2003, 17:55: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

Yes but you are ignoring cost and research in that comparison. Well, maybe not ignoring cost, but discounting it for sure. By increasing the research costs for the PPB as most people are suggesting you allow the MB player to get to the upper level weapon much sooner then the PPB player.

Much sooner? More like 2-3 turns earlier, which is why I discounted it. Mid game research is generally around 100k, no?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:
Much sooner? More like 2-3 turns earlier, which is why I discounted it. Mid game research is generally around 100k, no?

Well, I guess that depends on who is playing.

Geoschmo

[Pax]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
You could, but would you need to? The point of my comment that you quoted is that the stock AI's would work quite well with no changes at all. At least for these two changes.

Geoschmo

Well, if the Talisman is supposed to be +100 in addition to Combat Sensors, then, using Talisman without those sensors (uniformly, rather than in special cases) would produce a sub-optimal result.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by spoon:
With stats like those, why ever choose the Meson BLaster?...

Yes indeed. Why choose Meson BLaster at all? *shrugs*

Personally, in unmodded SE4 I never do. It dead ends too soon and has a very narrow window of usefulness IMO. But just because Meson BLaster is underpowered, doesn't mean that PPB should be as well. That would leave only APB as king.

I think Mesons should be upped in some way. Double damage to shields, perhaps? Or increase damage, range, lower cost, whatever.

Rollo