SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[Fyron]

Everybody should go to #se4 at some point. It is a fun (and occasionally productive) place to be!

[Ed Kolis]

An idea to balance offense vs. defense (and PD vs. ftr/skr/sat to boot!)

Cut ALL entries in the data files that affect to-hit chances in half.

This means:
1. Reduce base to hit chance at point blank (in settings.txt) from 100 to 50
2. Reduce to hit chance reduction per square distance from 10 to 5 (so weapons over range 4 are still useful )
3. Reduce offense and defense bonuses/penalties of hulls by half
4. Reduce to-hit bonuses of base mounts by half
5. Reduce to-hit bonuses of Combat Sensors to 12/22/32
6. Reduce defense bonuses of ECM to 10/20/30
7. Reduce defense bonuses of Scattering/Stealth Armor to 3/5/8
8. Reduce to-hit bonuses of certain weapons (WMG, PDC, HEM, etc.) by half\
edit: 9. Reduce offense and defense bonuses/penalties for planets and seekers in Settings.txt (yes, planets DO get an offense bonus, that's why your WP's always seem to hit! )
edit: well, maybe not the defense penalty for planets
And anything else I may have forgotten - essentially, do a global search for "Combat To Hit" in the data files and edit those lines

These changes essentially have the effect of reducing the chance for any attack to hit by one-half (not 50%, but one-half - a 70% to hit becomes 35%, not 20%). This way, ships survive longer in combat and the weapons that go over 99% and get cut off (PDC? WMG? ) get toned down to something in the 50%-99% range.

Of course, this would make the Talisman even MORE powerful but I'm assuming we're going to balance it in some way anyway

[ July 28, 2003, 00:44: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

[Fyron]

That is an interesting pic in your sig there Ed.

[Ed Kolis]

Yeah, I figure, I come up with all these cool ideas for mods but I never get around to implementing them, so I might as well make something of it

[J.]

Phew, managed to read the pages I missed since Last wednesday... A whole lot of them

I've another suggestion for the PPB: make it do half damage against shields? I don't know how it works but I'd guess it wouldn't cut it's damage in half when skipping normal shields would it? I for one want it as a sort of a niche weapon since it's special. Making it do half damage against shields would mean it would still be very very deadly against ships with normal shields but would tone it down against phased shields. It should also be changed to improve more steadily as has been suggested. Along with the idea of getting phased shields at the same time with normal shields instead of getting phased shields after researching all the normal shields this would make PPB's a choice, not a substitute for the APB.

Some Posts ago a suggestion was made that the talisman could replace combat sensors for religous players. This way you could have multiple tech levels of the talisman and religious players could get them earlier. If combat sensors give 25/45/65 bonus maybe talisman could also be three levels and have bonuses of maybe 45/75/105 or something? Comments on this? Also, it wouldn't cripple the AI would it?

I also have to vote that the big guns like WMG, acid, HEM, tachyon cannon get range increases, maybe some to-hit bonuses. Just make them have longer range and differ a bit from each other, like some having better damage/kt/turn, some better to-hit and some faster re-load. Torpedoes could be their baby-brother, having a range of 8 at max tech and having better damage/kt/turn.

I like the idea of the graviton hellbore skipping all shields. It makes the ship implode right? Maybe shields shouldn't protect against this?

Damn, I'm beginnning to post frequently on these forums

[ July 28, 2003, 11:40: Message edited by: Lurk4ever ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The problem is emissive dosen't stack.

It kind of does. The first 30 points are taken off the damage when it hits the first Emissive Armor III. Let's say it goes over that, and has enough left to destroy the remaining 50 points of actual structure. Then it hits the next Emissive Armor III and 30 more points are taken off, before the shot is allowed to damage the next Emissive Armor III.

This makes each 20 kiloton Emissive Armor III equivalent to a 10 kiloton Armor III in protection per kiloton, with the added bonus of negating some trailing damage now and then. Of course, it's significantly more expensive, so I wouldn't use it on suicidal ships or Weapon Platforms. As well I'm not sure the Emissive ability works on WPs.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[ July 28, 2003, 14:52: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Suicide Junkie]

In SE3, it did.

In SE4, the highest Emissive ability of the ship is used, no matter which component is hit.
(For damage types that don't skip armor)
It works similarily to Crystalline armor, really.

[ July 28, 2003, 14:58: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Given the above, a token improvement for levels 4 to 6 would look better than exact duplicates.

A token mprovement for them, and an overall hp/kT improvement for all armor, would be best.

Here's a possible suggestion:

code:

---

Component ... Old HP      ... New HP      ... Net Research cost

                                              (Medium)

Armor I   ... 30 (3.0/kT) ...  30 ( 3/kT) ...  55,000

Armor II  ... 35 (3.5/kT) ...  40 ( 4/kT) ...  65,000

Armor III ... 40 (4.0/kT) ...  50 ( 5/kT) ...  87,500

Armor IV  ... n/a         ...  60 ( 6/kT) ... 127,000

Armor V   ... n/a         ...  80 ( 8/kT) ... 199,500

Armor VI  ... n/a         ... 100 (10/kT) ... 289,500



Note, the cost includes the cost of Chemistry(1) at 50,000.

---

Compare this with shields:

code:

---

Component  ... Old HP+SP        ... Net Research cost

                                    ( Medium )

Shield I   ... 30+50  ( 2.7/kT) ...    60,000

Shield II  ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ...    80,000

Shield III ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ...   125,000

Shield IV  ... 40+225 ( 6.6/kT) ...   205,000

Shield V   ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ...   330,000

Phased I   ... 40+75  ( 2.9/kT) ...   510,000

Phased II  ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ...   755,000

Phased III ... 40+225 ( 6.6/kT) ... 1,075,000

Phased IV  ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ... 1,480,000

Phased V   ... 40+375 (10.4/kT) ... 1,980,000



Note, the cost includes the cost of Physics(1) at 50,000.

---

With that said, I think that a few things should be fixed. The Shield Generator I component is the ONLY 30kT shield generator. IMO, it should be upped to 40kT, with 40kT structure, to maintain the pattern.

As well, Shield IV and V have greater increases in shieldign levels compared to prior levels. I think they should be adjusted to 200 and 250, respectively.

OTOH, the entire progression fo Shield tech and components could be changed:

code:

---

Component  ... New HP+SP        ... Net Research cost

                                    ( Medium )

Shield I   ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ...    60,000

Phased I   ... 40+50  ( 2.3/kT) ...    80,000

Shield II  ... 40+200 ( 6.0/kT) ...   125,000

Phased II  ... 40+100 ( 3.5/kT) ...   205,000

Shield III ... 40+300 ( 8.5/kT) ...   330,000

Phased III ... 40+150 ( 4.8/kT) ...   510,000

Shield IV  ... 40+400 (11.0/kT) ...   755,000

Phased IV  ... 40+200 ( 6.0/kT) ... 1,075,000

Shield V   ... 40+500 (13.5/kT) ... 1,480,000

Phased V   ... 40+250 ( 7.3/kT) ... 1,980,000



Note, the cost includes the cost of Physics(1) at 50,000.

---

This would make unphased shields better, for the same comparative level of component, in terms of SP generated, and total effective hp/kT. Of course, it's then rock-paper-scissors WRT PPBs, APBs, and the like: do you want more SP but vulnerability to PPBs, or, do you want less total SP but the ability to stop PPBs with your shields?

It might also serve to nerf PPB without changing that weapon at all, as the first phased shields (albeit weaker than unphased) would be available for a total of only 80,000 research points, rather than the current 510,000 cost.

[Asmala]

My suggestions (lots of them has been mentioned earlier by others but without exact numbers):

• Different component families to normal and phased shields (doesn't affect to computer, easier to upgrade ships if using normal shielding)
• Supply Storage: double the amount of supply stored and count as a cargo space (ridiculous that an engine can store more supply per kT than a supply storage)
• Massive Shield Depleter and Massive Ionic Disperser: +100% to hit (only one hit per combat so it should hit)
• Ship and Fleet Training Facilities system wide, only 1% per turn, max 10/15/20 (only one effective per system)
• Psychic training centers 1/2/3 max 10/15/20
• To hit modifiers to weapon description (one dummy-ability which describes the modifier)
• Citizen Databank Complex and System Citizen Databank: intelligence 1 for tech area required (when playing without intelligence those facilities won't appear then)
• Massive Planetary Shield Generator: 30000 shield generation
• Medical Lab: prevents level 1/3/5 plagues instead of 1/2/3
• One-resource bonus facilities should have 20/40/60 bonus
• Scanners:
  Temporal/Psychic: half the size and costs -> 20kT and 750/0/250
  Hyper Optics: double the cost (3000/0/1000)
  Gravitic sensor: no changes
  Tachyon sensor: level 3 tachyon sensor scanning level from 4 to 5 -> the only sensor which see through the red system-wide storm. Level 5 scanner will also see mines though in their description says it prevents level 5 scans. Perhaps mines' cloaking should be rised.
  

Some comments please!

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Pax:
Here's a possible suggestion:

I wouldn't improve the armor so much. You should remember that Shield Depleter is extremely powerful weapon. Just include a few of them and all of enemy's shields will be gone very quickly. So if an armor and a shield have the same HP/kT I'd rather choose the armor (unless I'm facing a crystal race )