SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[oleg]

Originally posted by Loser:

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The problem is emissive dosen't stack.

It kind of does. The first 30 points are taken off the damage when it hits the first Emissive Armor III. Let's say it goes over that, and has enough left to destroy the remaining 50 points of actual structure. Then it hits the next Emissive Armor III and 30 more points are taken off, before the shot is allowed to damage the next Emissive Armor III.

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EA ability works once and only once per shot. And it does not matter what component is hit. Some mods - like Proportions - assign EA ability to non-armor components. Some sorts of internal damage reflector. It still reduces damage done to all armor and non-armor components.
(armor skipping weapons ignore EA ability regardless what component has it)

[Loser]

Thanks for the Emissive Armor correction, guys. Of course, I'm still going to test it, but since the test will no doubt confirm your declarations, I probably won't mention it again.

[Fyron]

(armor skipping weapons ignore EA ability regardless what component has it)

Are you positive about that, having done testing to back it up? I don't think that is true, though I have not done testing on it in quite some time. I think EA ability is not ignored by armor-skipping weapons if it is on a non-Armor comp. Though if it is, that gives me a great new way to make Shard Cannons be useful in Adamant Mod...

[cybersol]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The three objectives:

• To maintain compatibility with existing AIs.
• To improve the balance of the game, and increase the effective number of strategic options.
• To make as small of a change as possible to the stock game.

First of all, this is a great idea SJ. I believe as long as you stick to the above objectives this will be a unique and valuable mod to the community. I think the uniqueness comes from maintaining compatibility with existing AI's.
I also believe another objective is compatible with those above and has already come out of the discussion so far (regarding armor).

• To enhance the strategic options available to AI designers in the future.

Potential enchantments to AI strategic options:

• As mentioned previously, the inability to add normal armor to AI designs in the exact amount desired is particularly annoying. Rollo’s solution to always have normal armor as the “latest” is the most desirable, but another possibility is to give normal armor an unused ability like “ancient ruins” and then AI designers could call specifically for that ability is the misc. section.
• The ability to call for resupply depots both on a system wide basis AND an individual planet basis. Since the “supply generation” ability is the one that is system wide, this can be accomplished by adding a second ability like “emergency resupply”. The AI designer could request “supply generation” for a system wide resupply depot and “emergency resupply” for a specific one (say on that construction yard planet).

Additionally, I’m sure there are others out there who know of more minor changes along these lines that would help future AI designs without affecting the stock game in any way.

[cybersol]

Two cents on weapons:

APB: Fully developed, this is a maximum range direct fire weapon with the second best point blank range damage value (damage/rate/kt) and the best range 8 damage value. I think we can agree this is so overpowering that it limits strategic options in the late game.

PPB: A PPB II has nearly the same damage value at every range as DUC V and goes out to range 6 instead of 5. If that were not enough, it also has the shield skipping ability. Fully developed it has the third best point blank damage value and an above average range 6 damage value. Plus it has shield skipping. IMHO, this would be an above average weapon without the shield skipping ability, so it needs adjusting.

MB: This weapon has a good range and an above average damage value. And both these traits are identical to the physic TKP. The one advantage the psychic player gets (for his racial advantage and higher research cost) is being twice as bulky so that it gets past the emissive and crystalline armor abilities better. If you adjust this then the TKP needs adjusting. But I think they are both already above average.

DUC: I think this is the gold standard weapon that all the other weapons should be balanced around.

PDC: I think you need to be careful with changes so that early PDC are still somewhat effective counters to early fighters (and their 80% defensive bonus).

Torpedo: A plus accuracy weapon would be strategically useful.

WMG: Strategically, I like the long range, very slow reload artillery concept. Similar treatment should apply to the mental singularity generator and high energy magnifier.

Tractor Beams: I,II,III Ranges 4,5,6 with 1,2,2 damage making both the beams and mounts of the beams more useful.

After all that Plasma Missles, Incinerator Beams, and Tachyon Canons are still underpowered IMHO.

[cybersol]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Geo, that is EXACTLY how PPBs worked in SE3, and they worked beautifully there IMO. They should not be a mainline weapon, they should be a support type weapon, only useful in some situations. As it is now, they are so powerful that they become main line weapons, with really no decisions to make at all. Increasing choices to be made is ALWAYS a good idea (except when you increase from 30 to 40 choices or something ludicrous, ofc ).

I agree that increasing choice is good, but a stated goal of this mod is to not break existing AI's. If you were to convert the PPB from its current mainline role into a niche role it would severely impact the AI's that use it as a mainline weapon. Thus for the purposes of this mod, it would propably be better to balance a weapon than to completely change its identity.

[Fyron]

Perhaps PDCs should be split into two comps, one that targets seekers and one that targets fighters. The fighter one would then not have the auto-fire ability. The biggest thing that makes fighters impotent is that PDC is much longer ranged than their weapons, AND it always hits them before they ever get a chance to fire (except in some WP battles, but those are an exception). Fighter weapons should be kept short ranged. Making the PDC not auto fire will make them at least get a chance to fire before being slaughtered.