OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

[Thermodyne]

U.S. budget deficit put at $455 billion. This from an article published on the 16th. Income is down and expected to top out at 1.8 trillion. But, if the upturn continues, this is expected to rise to 2.6 trillion after the 4th quarter returns. It’s bad, but it has been worse in the past. You can bet that higher taxes will return, and cuts to services will be around the bend. It cost money to play war games for real.

A note on state budgets, many of the short falls were caused by the over-reliance on investment income. And many of the states hardest hit had spent this year’s money covering Last years bills, as they had done the prior three years. Paying Last years bills the day the new physical year starts does this. Sitting governors are often reluctant to force cuts; this is left until after the election. But by then the cycle is out of control. When you take this type of accounting and toss in a market that plummets, you have a disaster. There are a few states that chose to maintain their bond Ratings at the expense of the budget. My state is one of them. When the reserve fund value dropped off the chart, it was all in stocks and securities, general funds were added to maintain the value. This caused a tremendous hit on the budget. As did the return to physical accounting. We had a one party system here; the other party held only a few seats in the legislature. And as always happens, there was no one to say NO! So we spent away a fortune in tobacco money just because it was there. Problem is that now that it’s gone no one can seem to remember what we got for it.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:

quote:

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In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in Sweden 5.

I think we need to remove death by motor vehicle from both sides of the equation. No place in the world has the miles traveled by car percapita as the US. And no one has the number of basically dangerous recreational vehicles that we do. Often the figure for death by firearm is quoted as an indication of the state of our society. But its just a big number to people that are not used to thinking that large. In 1999, more people died from car accidents on one weekend than were killed by firearms for the whole year. And if we gave the same percentage of overpowered motor vehicles to the young people of Sweden, the death rate would soar. Add to that the legal protection that our constitution gives to drunk drivers and substance abUsers, and the number would rise again.

In Sweden, if I got drunk and killed someone in a car accident, what would happen to me as a first offense? Would I get my license back? Would I go to jail? What if I didn’t hurt anyone just wrecked my car? What would the penalty for that be?

In America we do put people to death for high crimes and attacks of an exceptionally violent nature. But on the other side of the coin, we let a lot of people off very lightly. And the vast majority of convicts on death row are repeat offenders.

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Killing someone while driving drunk will put you in prison for a couple of years, not sure how many, I'd guess 0.5-6 years depending on circumstances (prior history etc)

When taking the license become more expansive a couple of years ago the traffic deaths decreased alot, now I'd guess it costs approx 1-200 dollars if you take it through a driving school, you can do it cheaper by having a parent or friend as driving instructor, but those who do seldom pass on the first attempt.

Now I'm really off to bed so if Phoenix-D still don't understand statistics I'll have to explain it better tomorrow

[ July 25, 2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[DeadZone]

Well, I can say this, most Brits hate the fact that we are apart of the EU because of how they have decided to screw up our justice system, need I say more?

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by DeadZone:
Well, I can say this, most Brits hate the fact that we are apart of the EU because of how they have decided to screw up our justice system, need I say more?

What do you mean ? (Will read the answer tomorrow)
Our justice system hasn't changed very much since joining EU (I voted against joining though)

[Slynky]

Tks Pax (how much do I owe you ) (J/K)

Sometimes, I think 2 or 3 swats on the butt (and 5 minutes of crying and injured feelings) would be more acceptable than some of the punishments that were dealt out in this household. Our 8-year old (really, too old to spank) stole/took some Pokemon cards from a playmate. When I found out, I hit the roof. Stealing is abhorent to me. So, she had 2 weeks restriction to the house, no TV, no PC, no Gameboy, no Nintendo, no phonecalls...you get the idea. She thought it was a living hell.

But, all I can add to what Pax has said is that when administered under calm conditions, and it is over, you hold the child and talk to him/er. The Last time I spanked her was when she was about 4 or 5. When it was over, and I was back in our bedroom, I cried.

But, I have seen parents yank their children by the arm (several possibilities for injury), slap them in the face (more possibilities), and throw them into the back seat of their car (in a parking lot). That's wrong.

As to my comparison with the death penalty? I just think some people don't belong in society. Usually, they've proved it several times over. For all the bleeding hearts out there, how would you feel if a person had been declared rehabilitated from raping, murdering, and dancing in the blood of an 8-year-old girl as a culmination to many other "black marks" on their history moving into the apartment/house beside you? I guess that's just fine with you. Not with me. I don't believe in hanging them, chopping off their head, electrocution, or gas. Just insert the needle and put them to sleep, permanently.

[Fyron]

When taking the license become more expansive a couple of years ago the traffic deaths decreased alot, now I'd guess it costs approx 1-200 dollars if you take it through a driving school, you can do it cheaper by having a parent or friend as driving instructor, but those who do seldom pass on the first attempt.

It generally costs a lot more than that around here...

[Pax]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Tks Pax (how much do I owe you ) (J/K)

The usual amount, sent to the usual address, of course.

...

Wait ... did I say that out loud? hehehe.

But, I have seen parents yank their children by the arm (several possibilities for injury), slap them in the face (more possibilities), and throw them into the back seat of their car (in a parking lot). That's wrong.

Yes, it is. OTOH, it is equally wrong for the parents to ignore the child's inappropriate behavior -- which is what many parents do when in public places: nothing. Oh, they may ground the kid when they get home, or deny them TV privileges, or whatever.

But in the meantime, the brat is screaming loud enough that I am getting a splitting headache, and am no longer enjoying the meal I've paid for, the movie I bought tickets for, etc, etc, etc. And yes -- been there, done that, watched the establishment's management wring their hands impotently when complained-to.

There's something to be said for nonphysical discipline. However, there's nothing good that can be said about no discipline.

As to my comparison with the death penalty? I just think some people don't belong in society. Usually, they've proved it several times over. For all the bleeding hearts out there, how would you feel if a person had been declared rehabilitated from raping, murdering, and dancing in the blood of an 8-year-old girl as a culmination to many other "black marks" on their history moving into the apartment/house beside you? I guess that's just fine with you. Not with me. I don't believe in hanging them, chopping off their head, electrocution, or gas. Just insert the needle and put them to sleep, permanently.

I've got my own ideas for an effective penal system.

Step one: no more plea bargains that change the actual charge; cooperating in solving other crimes may pass for mitigating circumstances when it comes to sentencing, but X crime is always X crime, not Y and/or Z lesser crimes if you play nicey-nice after the fact.

Step two: if you are convicted, serve your time, and re-offend, the sentence for your second offense is automatically extended by the entire term of ALL prior sentences; you pay any FINES over again, you do any TIME over again, etc. Obviously you didn't learn your lesson the first time around, so, you should try again from the beginning.

Step three: institute a sort of "three strikes" program. Assign comparative-weight point values to various crimes (or ranges thereof, to account for differences in which acts constitute X criminal act(s)). Pick a good, solid point total and draw a line.

Anyone who accumulates that many (or more) points, is faced with a choice: you have 48 hours to leave the country forever, or, choose to have your life terminated in a humane fashion, chosen by you form a list of approved methods. (inability to find a nation willing to accept you is your problem).

Step four: ditch the majority of privileges in prisons. This doesn't have to be cruel; you can keep TV available ... in a single TV room per block of cells, with access only to news and educational programming.

Eliminate this "no convict labor" nonsense; make the convicts do some form of work ... the army needs uniforms? Fine, build the right facility onto the prison, and have a company come in and manage the process. No competition with the private sector (youw on't be making Levis in there, just stuff for government consumption). Similar could be done for basic tools, stationary/letterhead for government offices, and so on. Pay participating convicts a (very) small stipend, set up a commissary in the prison, and if they want cigaretts or a candy bar or whatever, they can pay it out of their salary. No job, no money; no money, no luxuries.

Get in a fight and break something, get billed for it -- no luxuries until the bill is paid, 'cause the whole stipend goes towards that cost.

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Would it be perfect? Heck, no. But it'd be somethign we haven't TRIED yet, withotu being (IMO) inhumane or needlessly cruel.