OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

geoschmo · #1 July 26th, 2003, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Germany only had to fight on two fronts because they attacked the Russians long before it was wise to do so. If they had kept their non-aggression treaty with them, they would have been able to overwhelm England, and then it would have been really, really difficult for the US to have a chance of helping out and finally defeating them.

That is true, but I was responding to Thermo's belief that if England and France had not given Germany an ultimatum they would have attacked Russia first.

It's no secret that Germany made a lot of mistakes. We were in a lot of ways very lucky that the war turned out he way it did. But many of those mistakes were forced errors because England and France did not continue to appease Hitler and the way he expected them to do. This caused him to have to change plans and improvise, something he didn't do very well.

Geoschmo

oleg · #2 July 26th, 2003, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Note:

France has begun to very quietly modernize its nuclear forces. If I were a German that remembers that Last war, I would be calling for a deterrent force for Germany. Remember that it was France that declared war on the Germans. And many Germans still believe that their government was only interested in righting the wrongs of Versailles [sp] and barring the gates to communism.

The reason may be more subtle. Once US install SDI, France nuclear deterrent will almost disappear. It is China and France who would be most affected by SDI. Russia has too much arsenal and UK, well, we all know

I don't know how many missiles France has but I doubt it will be enough if US is serious about SDI.

geoschmo · #3 July 26th, 2003, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:
If Germany postpone the attack till summer of 42, there will be 1500 or even more.

Maybe, or maybe there would have been another purge, or maybe Stalin would have been fitted for a hemp necktie.

Russia wasn't exactly a smooth running machine prior to the German invasion united the people and government together in a great patroiotic cause.

Geoschmo

Thermodyne · #4 July 26th, 2003, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oleg:

quote:
Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Note:

France has begun to very quietly modernize its nuclear forces. If I were a German that remembers that Last war, I would be calling for a deterrent force for Germany. Remember that it was France that declared war on the Germans. And many Germans still believe that their government was only interested in righting the wrongs of Versailles [sp] and barring the gates to communism.

The reason may be more subtle. Once US install SDI, France nuclear deterrent will almost disappear. It is China and France who would be most affected by SDI. Russia has too much arsenal and UK, well, we all know I don't know how many missiles France has but I doubt it will be enough if US is serious about SDI.

France does not need these weapons for protection from the US. And they have to few to be called a superpower these days. The systems they are working on are tactical. These will only have deterrence against people who are somewhat closer to them. They are working on the same types of systems that the US removed some years back. Prior to the removal, they objected to the positioning of the weapons. Now they are deploying their own.

DeadZone · #5 July 26th, 2003, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruatha:

quote:
Originally posted by DeadZone:
Well, I can say this, most Brits hate the fact that we are apart of the EU because of how they have decided to screw up our justice system, need I say more?

What do you mean ? (Will read the answer tomorrow)
Our justice system hasn't changed very much since joining EU (I voted against joining though)

Cmon look at how weak our justice system has become, its laughable, the police are scared of criminals nowadays cos of how light sentencing is and the fact that police cant do anything to criminals incase it 'breaks' their human rights, and EU's human rights is stupid as it tends to protect the criminal instead of the victim.

tesco samoa · #6 July 26th, 2003, 06:27 AM

the plan failed in 41.... Germany never did secure their left flank.... But Novemember of 41 they had suffered 750000 casualties out of 3.4 million. Their panzer forces were spent.

Russia had 20000 tanks at the start of that war. The Keiv disaster was never repeated. And the 'lightening war' was never effective in the east due to the vast size and horrible roads and weather.

In late 41 the soviet airforce held its own. And Stalin learnt via Kiev that withdrawl was needed to save army Groups and that at Kiev the Field commander was correct and should be allowed to make the judgement call.

Nov 41 the germans also faced the reality that their tanks were outclassed and that they had to attack the 34 from behind. The soviets figured this out very quickly. Hence the long withdrawl battles of 42...

And at the end of 41 the okl and okh were controlled by hitler completely.

But then again this is all what if ? ( which are great books )

P.S. you do not win a war when you have 15 different rifles

geoschmo · #7 July 26th, 2003, 06:38 AM

Yes, but the issue was very much in doubt for a while. The Germans could have beaten the Russians with a few breaks and some better decision making. It makes you wonder if the Germans had their full force attacking the Russians, instead of holding much in reserve to defend the Atlantic Wall, and the Russians had not had the support of the lend lease program if they would have been able to hold out.

Geoschmo