Does Life Exist

[JurijD]

Hey Arkcon... yeah 11 days in the mediteranian sun relaxes you more then u can imagine I´m glad PBW knew when to stop working

I understand your point Ruatha... I know that in the 30-ies old Adolf couldn´t exactly tune to Alpha Centauri between his looong screaming monolouges It just that I read somewhere that the voyager probe (if put far away from Earth) would be able to record (again) the first Elvis song broadcasted on radio... I just concluded that with a big enough radio antenna one could pick up the first transmissions from our system... and vice versa.

P.S.: and of course my argument only included intelligent species that have the same tech level and are similarily developed as we are... use teh same tech (radio freq. that we use are such because they are most appropriate and they would prolly use the same ones) ther of course could be a hugely developed culture living on alpha centaury that has ships that reach warp 9.86 but communicates by telephaty and has no need for radio and such primitive junk

[ August 08, 2003, 12:44: Message edited by: JurijD ]

[Ruatha]

Why would aliens attack us, what would they want? Information is one thing that would be valuable.
If the whole population on earth could be killed off without destroying the structires, computers, libraries etc, it would be a wealth of information.
New ideas and viewpoints, different ways to do the same thing, could be profitable but would require a huge investment, propably to big to be worthwhile, but what do I know of alien psychlogy?
Perhaps we would be considered devils, an abomination against their god and that we must be destroyed. Or a potential future threat if left alone?

Still, I for one belive that any possible alines would not be hostile, but I'll most likely ever know as there isn't even a slim chance that such a contact will be established in my lifetime, if there is intelligent life out there.

So what about the future?
I belive that one day there will be many different species out there, widely different in abilities and look, but all derived from human stock, geneticly altered by either man or nature to fit into different conditions, perhaps small alterations at first, better oxygnetaing blood platelets? But eventually accelerating, good or bad? For me it seems like a bad idea but then I'm not living in that time am I?

[JurijD]

Yeah of course, they could be after info... one could prolly even think of better reasons. I just wanted to say that we are (now) prolly insignificant to anyone out there. Take this example: what could we learn by watching how a cat chases a mouse or by killing all the snails in the world and examining their shells to see what they have hiding in there Or killing all the monkeys on Earth for fear of the evolving into something higher... Think of the developments we made in the Last 100 years... (try!) to extrapolate to the next 1.000.000 years of development... thats how developed they will be when (and if) we meet them. I don´t think they´ll even bother to stop here...

[ August 08, 2003, 12:51: Message edited by: JurijD ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I just concluded that with a big enough radio antenna one could pick up the first transmissions from our system... and vice versa

Well, broadcasting does send a lot of waste signal into space.

If you want to be communicating over long distances, cheaper and with less interference for others doing the same thing, you start using fibreoptics, and narrow EM beams from satellites and cell towers directly to your customer, rather bLasting it out everywhere...

Propaganda and distress signals are about all you'd want for omnidirectional signals, which unfortunately get the 'ol 1/r^2 fading.

[JurijD]

- Don´t EM transmissions fade at 1/r^3 ?

- Yeah but even with todays directed EM (cell phone, satellite comm.) a lot of it is reflected from structures and the earth itself and is rediated back out to space... I´m sure that if we were say 34 light years away we could watch Armstrong land on the moon... and if we were 2 light years away listen to Aaron talking over his cell phone with his phone company complaining about yet another problem

[Cirvol]

if any aliens did use standard energy to communicate, (and they were more advanced than us), they'd be using narrow band laser-type communication devices...

due to the minimalized signal strength fall off at long distances...

if not something so conventional (ie, if their tech was higher, they'd be using either tacyons or even most likely - Einstein coupled particles (where changing spin on one of them instantly changes spin on its 'brother', regardless of distance)...

these really are the most likely forms of long distance alien communication, which is why we need to get it

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Loser:
I like the "if there's anybody out there, where the bleep are they!?!" side of the question. Even within the limitations of the speed of light, it would take no more than a couple hundred million years for one race of intelligent life to spread throughout the galaxy, the whole galaxy.

I believe there is a very good chance that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Possibly a lot of it. There are a LOT of stars out there after all. I consider the Drake equations to be on the conservative side. The Rare Earth guys are down right pessimistic in their assumptions.

However, it may be exceedingly difficult if not impossible for life to spread beyond it's home system. Life that is built to exsist on a certain type of planet with a specific type of circumstances cannot easily pack up in man made, or Phong made for that matter, ships and fly to the next star over.

Technology can only do so much to prepare for the hostile conditions we know exsist in the vacuum between our own planets, much less anticipate and prepare for dangers we don't know about.

We may be hundreds of years from being able to establish semi-permanant facilities on Mars or teh moons of Jupiter. And those will still be heavily dependant on the supply of resources and personell from Earth.

For life to spread to another star system we have to figure out a way to design extremely intricate technological systems, but make them Last the decades or centuries that it would take to reach our destination. We'd need multiple upon multiple redundancies for systems, and some method of repair and replacment of critical parts only with the raw materials and manufacturing capacity that we can carry with us.

Some people equate it to the sailing ship explorers of the enlightenment age on Earth. But that is romantic nonsense. It's much harder then that. To equate it you'd have to have a sailing ship where you can't throw a line over and catch a fish, and you can't stop on an island and gather water, where the trip Lasts so long the ship would rot out from under you, but you have to rebuild it as it does from wood you have stored in the hold.

Not an easy proposition. It may be that intelligent life is abundant, or at least has been abundant over the lifespan of the galaxy. But it may be simply beyond the scope and ability of that life to travel the lifeless void of space between the stars.

At least until we get a Warp Drive.

[ August 08, 2003, 13:34: Message edited by: geoschmo ]