What is the point to life?

[SpaceBadger]

Originally posted by Atrocities:

*snip*
...if you know that the end result is just going to be death

*snip*
...if life after death is nothingness where concience thought does not exsist?

*snip*
...if death is the end result?

First off, in the material I quoted above you are making some assumptions that I don't agree with. I'm a Christian, and I believe that there is more to it than what you've stated.

However, even assuming for the sake of discussion your chosen limitations, what about enjoying life while you live it? What about making the lives of others more enjoyable, or at least less miserable? What about leaving the world a little better for your descendants, or for just people in general if you have no descendants? What about not letting down those who are depending on you right now, and who are perhaps looking to you for an example of how they should live?

SpaceBadger

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Think about this, do you remember the time before you were born? If not, then how do you expect to remember the you were live after you have died?

that's like argueing that an amniesiac didn't exist before there amnesia.

[Puke]

Someone's baiting an arguement. I'll bite, but I'm not going to hang on to the hook.

Life isn't anything. It does not "Mean" anything. You dont get anything or go anywhere when you die. You're just dead. Thats it. And you're not much more than that, right now. Your a collection of cells, which are a collection of atoms, that exist from one moment to the next, and your consiousness is only self percieved because some of those cells are altered by events as time goes by, and thus you collect "memories." but its not alot fancier than that. You're not all that different from any other animal, which isnt all that far off from a plant, which isn't all that dissimilar from any random collection of chemical reactions.

Someone on this forum has a great quote from Democritus of Abdera that sum's it up:

By convention sweet, by convention bitter, by convention hot, by convention cold, by convention colour: but in reality atoms and void.

That being said, you might as well enjoy what you've got. Stop being so f-ing pompous and dont think that you have to justify everything with some sort of higher purpose. You're not chosen and theres not some mission to your life, and your not going to achieve or lose anything in death. Have a good time. Live in the here and now, because its all you've got. And only reflect on the future or past when it pleases you to do so. Live for youself, unless it pleases you to live for others. In short, do what you like. To quote Bob Marley, "Don't Worry, Be Happy."

And for some more uniquely up-beat nihlism, give Ex-Oblivione by H.P. Lovecraft a quick read:

But as the gate swung wider and the sorcery of the drug and the dream pushed me through, I knew that all sights and glories were at an end; for in that new realm was neither land nor sea, but only the white void of unpeopled and illimitable space. So, happier than I had ever dared hope to be, I dissolved again into that native infinity of crystal oblivion from which the daemon Life had called me for one brief and desolate hour.

edit: fixed my quotes

[ October 06, 2003, 18:35: Message edited by: Puke ]

[Atrocities]

I have this theory that I think helps prove the pointlessness to life.

You live in a very nice area, say Portland Oregon for all of your life. The cost of living was afordable say around 20k. The climate is great, the recreational areas are great, the people - well normal. Then the rich folks "discover" it. The next thing you know the cost of living, poverty level, is $40,000 a year and most of the people who have lived here their entire lives can no longer aford to stay. The rich ran them off just like we did to the Indians. "Oh this is a very nice area you live in here. We are going to relocate you to this god forsaken waste land so that we can have your property."

The rich win by simply being able to aford the increased cost of living. They win because any one who makes less than 40k a year now can not afford to live around here. Now the rich can pick up houses on the foreclosure market for pennies on the dollar and get richer selling them to those who earn above the poverty level of 40k a year.

They simply raise the cost of living to the point that only the rich can aford to live.

Our lives are given meaning by simple things, the pleasure of reproduction, the taste of food, the creativeness that we all posess, etc. But in the end, we realize that all that really matters is what makes us happy while we are living.

Family, good food, friends, the places we love to live, the things we enjoy doing. When those are all taken from you, what is left?

I not saying people should go out and off themselves, god no, what I am saying is if all that we base our lives on are things that can be taken from us, plus factor in the knowledge that death will come no matter what, then life is really a cruel thing.

So if life is a cruel thing, then living is a punishement as we must endure the loss of all that life offers as a reward for living.

We are born into this world with nothing and we leave it with nothing.

[Loser]

Life is not cruel. Life is indifferent. Existence is unjust. Experience is inconsistent.

The evil, the pain, the Adamic burden, the sin is in memory. Keeping the past around, holding your action against yourself, holding another's behavior against them, this is from where suffering comes. An awareness of reality outside the present is the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It empowers us to change our world and ties us to things we cannot change, our personal epic histories.

Enlightenment, contentment, redemption, they all require an acknowledgement of the past, not an escape from it. But this acknowledgement is not made for the purpose of maintaining some perpetual accountability, it is made to free the consciousness from dwelling on painful impossibilities.

Letting go is the key to happiness.

[ October 06, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Puke]

well, yeah.. if you're on the losing side, i suppose. thats just a part of evolution, more powerfull societies have taken desireable land from less developed cultures, and it even happens internally in our own country - and other countries - where the empowered take advantage of the average or the disadvantaged.

call it cruel if you like, but its evolution in action. people are no different from animals. the pendilum can swing the other way too - the french revolution being an extreme example. dont read too much into it all. life and family and friends all remain. if the activities you enjoy are all expensive, then i cant help you there. but item and property ownership isnt really all that rewarding. at least, not to me.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by SpaceBadger:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:

*snip*
...if you know that the end result is just going to be death

*snip*
...if life after death is nothingness where concience thought does not exsist?

*snip*
...if death is the end result?

First off, in the material I quoted above you are making some assumptions that I don't agree with. I'm a Christian, and I believe that there is more to it than what you've stated.

However, even assuming for the sake of discussion your chosen limitations, what about enjoying life while you live it? What about making the lives of others more enjoyable, or at least less miserable? What about leaving the world a little better for your descendants, or for just people in general if you have no descendants? What about not letting down those who are depending on you right now, and who are perhaps looking to you for an example of how they should live?

SpaceBadger

---

I do not mean to offend any one who choses to believe in an after life for the truth is no one really knows what death really brings except those who have died and they are not talking.

I am of the same mind as Puke and feel that once you gone, your gone. There is no heaven no hell, no nothing. I do believe in the essence of God, but not in religion of God. Its complicated, but basically put I am open minded and respect all people regardless of their beliefs.

If you believe in the after life, then I am very happy for you. I wish I could believe, but simply do not.

I have spent my life for others, I have sacraficed eveything to be good to others, and the deed is often its own reward, but over the Last few years I have come to the simple realization that people are people are people.

No good deed goes unpunished, nice guys do finish Last, evil is reward while kindness if punished. There are two types of poeple, criminals, and good criminals.

Good criminals are the people who run the systems that we all live by, banking, religion, government, etc. They are the ones who get wealthy off of the backs of those who do the work. Criminals, normal folks come in two sub types. Bad Criminals, and honest criminals. Bad criminals are those criminals who do horrible things like murder, rape, etc, while honest criminals are people who follow the rules, but occationally make minor mistakes such as jay walking, speeding, not waring your seat belt, etc.

The Good criminals are the people who get rich off of the backs of the rest of us. They are the guys who bankrupt a company making millions while the life savings of the companies employes is wiped out.

A good friend of mine at work brought in a philosopy book once. I read it. My life was for ever change after that. The very things that many of us complain about today, taxes, death, religion, money are very much the same thing that people have complained about since the dawn of recorded history.

Nothing changes except the stupid laws we use to govern ourselves. The laws that are written by the rich for the rich to benifit the rich. The rich do not go into the military as PFC's, no they go in as officers and often their arrogance get the PFC's killed.

The poor are nothing but a renewable resource for the wealthy to use to get wealthier. If you do not earn interest, your are paying interest. If all that my life is for is to make some other bastards life better then I choose not to play the game.

I am not a slave, I am owned by the company that I slave away at. My life is mine, why should I trade it away for just enough money to get a taste of living but not enough to live.

Depressing isn't it? Well when you boil it all down to the simple truth, as Puke said, we are all nothing but a collection of atoms. We all die rich or poor. And while I am here, living, I choose not to live to make the rich richer.