OT: Public referrendums on destroying evil companies

[Thermodyne]

Gator installs software without the expressed permission and consent of the user. This is against the law in many states,

The RIAA is an evil solution, but the industry was left few alternatives. If the current situation continues, there will be little or no music industry left by the end of the decade. People and business have to make a profit; such is what makes to world go round. And the owner of a song or movie or code is entitled to charge for its use. Most bands make very little money as it is, and P2P has already adversely impacted the ability of new Groups to break into the industry. Just look at what has happened to the music industries profits and then graft it to CD-R sales and P2P net use. Do you want new music, or free oldies? That is where we are heading.

Microsoft is a well run company and is at best over aggressive in finding and protecting markets. But current law is sufficient to control them. Personally, I would like to see American industry adopt MS’s management strategies. Very few corporations are looking past the next few dividend checks these days. It should also be noted that MS was able to gain control of many of its smaller competitors with the lure of quick money; so much of the current situation was brought upon the industry by its own greed. I think things will continue as they are for now. And it should be noted that MS is investing more money in its next OS than any American company has ever invested in a new product in the history of America. Now to drop the other shoe, I would like to see product liability law applied to software. Not just MS, but all software. That is the protection that the consumer needs at this time.

Who gives a rats behind about what McD’s sells. You eat there or you don’t, so what. You could package doggy doo and sell it as health food; someone would be stupid enough to buy it.

No, public referendum is an evil perVersion of democracy. It was seen as such by our founding fathers, and more than a few of them warned of it in their writings. Public opinion is far too susceptible to manipulation, and far too small a percentage of the population is capable of having an independent thought or opinion. There is even a smaller percentage that can reason events out in a responsible reasonable fashion. The counter to this has always been delay. The government delays action and waits for public opinion to change; changes were only made if the support for an idea continued to carry a majority over a long period of time. Sure this has been to the displeasure of some, but to swing the other way would end up being to the displeasure of many. An American example would be prohibition. An American experience would be pot and tobacco. On the smaller scale of the question, if it were that way, Toyota would be out of business, their early cars and service sucked. The Vega would have been the end of GM. And Ford would have died with the Mustang II and Fairmont. Every company that dared to bring a new cutting edge technology to market would end up being disbanded. Anyone remember the first cell phones (bricks). Heck, what about the internet and 12k or less dial up. And let’s not forget the crud that passed for color TV back in the day. No, I think it is best left to the open market and the courts as to how long a corporation survives. Think about it, if public opinion ruled, the IRS would be gone long ago. And with it all resemblance to the America as it is today. Electricity would be free; there just wouldn’t be any to be had. Same with food and every thing else. What people want, and what is workable, just don’t often go together.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, seeing as this thread is getting really long Posts and i don't really want to read page and a half Posts, i'll just say that mechanical devices can be built to a standard because mechanics has been around for thousands of years. the principle's are well-known. computers are very, very new and the principle's are still being established. therefore, a company that produces mechanical devices can be expected to make them compatable with standardized tools, while a company that makes computer's cannot. also, a mechanical device with the complexity of the average computer would probable be the size of a football stadium.

apples and pineapples.

[Cyrien]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
ok, seeing as this thread is getting really long Posts and i don't really want to read page and a half Posts, i'll just say that mechanical devices can be built to a standard because mechanics has been around for thousands of years. the principle's are well-known. computers are very, very new and the principle's are still being established. therefore, a company that produces mechanical devices can be expected to make them compatable with standardized tools, while a company that makes computer's cannot. also, a mechanical device with the complexity of the average computer would probable be the size of a football stadium.

apples and pineapples.

It would probably be larger than a football stadium, maybe a continent.

Further the principles of modern mechanical manufacturing have not been around for 1000s of years (you still got that old Roman SUV made in 25BC? So do I) more like 200 or 300 total years, which is still quite abit... except they are constantly evolving and innovating.

The way you make cars today with modern steels and pLastics AND microchips for the internal computers is not very much like what Ford did.

My post wasn't against computer manufacturing, who are still held accountable for the mistakes they make in their machines as are the auto inudstry and other manufacturing industries.
My point was that in all these industries, the automotive, the computer making, the banking, etc... there is always accoutability to the indivual Users for a product that fails. There is not the same level of accountability for software. And there should be. And if you want to go back in time then you can find accountability to the user for defective merchandise even 1000's of years ago. Checkout Hammurabis code. If the house you build for another collapses and kills the owner or son or slave etc... accountability for the job you do for someone else in the oldest written law code.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Loser:
First, DavidG, seatbelts and motorcycle eye-protection are both matters of public safety and work to prevent bodily injury. That hardly compares to ad/spyware.

Second, there's a whole heck of a lot of software built into just about every thing you install. If a software maker wants to take Gator's money and include it in their package they're responsible for that bit of subVersion, and are risking their reputation.

I can't believe you are defending spyware companies?? It is pretty obvious (at least to me) that these companies make an extra effort to get their crap on your computer without your knowing.
The seatbelt law may be a bad example but there are numerous examples of laws to protect the foolish (or at least what you may percieve as foolish)

[Loser]

I loath spyware, who doens't?

But the software company that chose to include Gator in their product should be your target on those 'stealth' installations.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Loser:
I loath spyware, who doens't?

But the software company that chose to include Gator in their product should be your target on those 'stealth' installations.

I believe they are both equally guilty.

[Cyrien]

You should go after both of them. Unless Gator went to those companies and said
"Gee, we will pay you this money to have this program install with yours but you have to make sure that the user knows they are installing it and exactly what it does when it installs with yours."

I doubt that conversation occurred at all, ever. Thus both companies would be on my target list, but Gator would be on top because they produced it. I can target the other company but then Gator will just goto the next one and the next one over and over against and it keeps going. Get the source and it stops, get the symptons and you will be doing it over and over.