Status of systems not presently seen - Page 3

Fyron · #21 December 2nd, 2003, 11:02 PM

Not displaying ship names removes some of the RP aspects of the game, so removing them would be a bad idea. They need to be kept.

Not displaying the damage of ships for these overviews is also a bad idea because that is criticial information. If you saw that ships were damaged, why should you have to forget it? That makes no sense. It is extremely useful information when you have it. Unfortunately in stock SE4, the long range scanners are not very useful. But, there are mods that change that.

The data for ships would be much, much larger than 2 bytes. Quite a few for the name, and then 1 for every single component on the ships, to tell if it is damaged or not.

Also, do not forget the fact that it is entirely possible to see the same ship in a whole bunch of systems as your Last visit, especially if you are being followed by them. Do not forget about the worst case scenarios... they make a huge difference.

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:
Fyron I don't understand why you keep dumping on this idea. It is an excellent idea. Let MM decide if and how it's to be impelmented. It clearly is possible without affecting the transfered file sizes.

Please show me where I ever said it was a bad idea or that I did not like the idea. All I have said is that it would increase the size of savegame files by quite a bit. Not in the beginning of the game, but once you start seeing more and more of the map, the extra data to store builds up.

[ December 02, 2003, 21:03: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

DavidG · #22 December 3rd, 2003, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Not displaying ship names removes some of the RP aspects of the game, so removing them would be a bad idea. They need to be kept.

Not displaying the damage of ships for these overviews is also a bad idea because that is criticial information. If you saw that ships were damaged, why should you have to forget it? That makes no sense. It is extremely useful information when you have it.

Huh?? So now when that info is totally lacking it is better?? I think Asmala was talking about systems you don't have a current view off wich now show nothing. If you could currently see the system then the all info would be displayed as normal. Systems with an old view could easily just display some basic info.

DavidG · #23 December 3rd, 2003, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Asmala:
nformation you need for a planet:
resource values 3 bytes
population 2 bytes
coordinates 1 byte
owner 1 byte
total 7 bytes

I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too).

Fyron · #24 December 3rd, 2003, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:
Originally posted by Asmala:
nformation you need for a planet:
resource values 3 bytes
population 2 bytes
coordinates 1 byte
owner 1 byte
total 7 bytes

I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too).

Nope. What if they change? Should you have changing logs then?

Fyron · #25 December 3rd, 2003, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:
Huh?? So now when that info is totally lacking it is better??

What? I never said that... I was responding to Asmala's claims that you can just ignore that stuff and not save details on it, which is a very bad idea.

Quote:

I think Asmala was talking about systems you don't have a current view off wich now show nothing. If you could currently see the system then the all info would be displayed as normal. Systems with an old view could easily just display some basic info.

They could, but that defeats the purpose. They should show all the info you say before, not magically lose information that you had before. It would be no better than now, still requiring you to load up old savegame files to see all the info you lost.

[ December 02, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

DavidG · #26 December 3rd, 2003, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:
Originally posted by DavidG:

quote:
Originally posted by Asmala:
nformation you need for a planet:
resource values 3 bytes
population 2 bytes
coordinates 1 byte
owner 1 byte
total 7 bytes

I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too).
Nope. What if they change? Should you have changing logs then?

Now you're just confusing me. So what if they do change? so you see the changed values. Isn't that the way the game works right now?

Fyron · #27 December 3rd, 2003, 02:13 AM

The proposal was to get an accurate picture of the system from the Last time you saw it. If data keeps getting updated in that system where you have no presence, it fails to be an accurate picture of how the system was the Last time you visited it. This is why stuff like planet names, ship names, planet values, etc. must be stored separately for each system's "Last seen" status, in case the actual values on the objects change at a date later than you Last visited that system.

Karibu · #28 December 3rd, 2003, 11:30 AM

We would need to have estimation of it from Malfador. Otherwise thi is only speculation at best. Does anyone has any connection there?

DavidG · #29 December 3rd, 2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The proposal was to get an accurate picture of the system from the Last time you saw it. If data keeps getting updated in that system where you have no presence, it fails to be an accurate picture of how the system was the Last time you visited it. This is why stuff like planet names, ship names, planet values, etc. must be stored separately for each system's "Last seen" status, in case the actual values on the objects change at a date later than you Last visited that system.

Since in the current game you can see the current planet names and the resources values of the planets in all systems you have explored I see no reason to change this. Sure it would be nice but one thing at a time.
It might be more productive if you spent more time thinking of ways to make this work instead of finding reason why it can't every post.
Even storing just the planet ownership would be very helpfull. Saving all the old turns and opening them to find this info is very cumbersome.

Quote:

Please show me where I ever said it was a bad idea or that I did not like the idea

Try looking in the same thread were I said you did say these things.

Fyron · #30 December 3rd, 2003, 04:43 PM

Quote:

It might be more productive if you spent more time thinking of ways to make this work instead of finding reason why it can't every post.

Obviously you missed the point entirely... I never said it could not work, nor that it would not work. I only ever said that it would increase the size of savegames significantly, and that is why it was not done in the first place in SE4.

Quote:

Even storing just the planet ownership would be very helpfull.

Yes it would.

Quote:

Saving all the old turns and opening them to find this info is very cumbersome.

Funny that I used the same exact thing as an argument against some of what Asmala said.

Quote:

Try looking in the same thread were I said you did say these things.

But I never said them... see response to first quote in this post.