Latest patch, mods & current game

Spyder · #1 March 6th, 2001, 08:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Windborne:
I tend to avoid mods other then new shipsets because I like to stick with the official game and be able to more accurately compare scores with my friends (who do the same), if we started using different mods our strategies for multiplayer would all get messed up by the quirks of our own patch system, does anyone have any idea when MM will be going over the various mods (especially system mods) and incorporating some new stuff into the game?

Windborne....most of these mods don't change the basic game. They add smarter races, different shipsets, and other things that don't alter the basic game (like changing research costs, build costs, item abilities, or, adding items to the research tree).

------------------
Spyder, Chairman of the Arachnid Consortium

Jon Brave · #2 March 6th, 2001, 10:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by God Emperor:
If you just want mods that just tweak the existing game I recommend;
1) Mod Pack,
2) Sundevil's mod (tweaks politics, anger files)
3) My mod - ResearchShip_v127c (tweaks research and ship design files and gives point defence at game start in order to help the Ai in ship combat).

All of these mods are compatible. I suggest that you load them in the above order.

I also like a couple of the SystemNames mods around (eg like those produced by Tarkin and Dracus).
I have combined a number together and have done a bit of an edit on them for my own purposes. I would suggest that you do the same.

God Emperor, you're a case in point. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand. I have previously taken this ModPack1.01 thing. My understanding is that either Mephisto or Tampa_Gamer had patches in there to improve the basic AI. Then I see you touting your stuff, which looks v. interesting. But I won't do yours 'coz I think it'll overwrite at least some stuff in their ModPack (or you'll have old Versions of some files). Which could well be a shame, with all deference to you. Now I'm beginning to wonder whether they're mods only affect their races (Darloks/EA), maybe yours are the only ones improving other AI...

Look, why don't you be a hero? This is desperately complicated, whatever anyone says. *Explain* here how the common mods interact? Not sell your stuff, if you see what I mean, but just try to explain the relationship between general files/your stuff/modpack1/latest patch/what overwrites what... you know what I mean without listing everything. It would be *so* appreciated.

There are still things like this that I know I'm not the only one who doesn't get the picture. There are often questions, for example, about whether you have to pick a race explicitly at the start of a game. I want to know why I initially tried kust getting ModPack1.01 and thought it said I didn't have to have special shipsets if I couldn't be bothered, but found it wouldn't work right (missing files, .bmps etc.) till I eventually I had to go somewhere else to get the shipsets just to get it to work, and now I've doubtless got to do that again...

Sorry to go on. How about a modders-usage guide for the *non-*modders?

Aaaaahhhh, I just saw Richard Arnesen's post for modders guide which seems to me to strike a chord... Can't wait that long, though, so any answers now still appreciated

[This message has been edited by Jon Brave (edited 06 March 2001).]

God Emperor · #3 March 7th, 2001, 02:08 AM

John Brave, apologies if I have not been very explanatory in my Posts (I put details in the Readme file that accompanies the mod). I should probably illustrate what I have done with an example;

=========================================
Mod Pack Amonkrie Research file;
AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Physics
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 3
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Ship Construction
Tech Area Level := 4
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Construction
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Weapon Platforms
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Mines
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Fighters
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Smaller Weapons
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Torpedo Weapons
Tech Area Level := 8
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

Note the number of techs that are researched between Physics and shields. You or I, if we researched physics, would immediately research at least shields 1 or 2 to get some benefit from researching Physics.
This section of the research file is unchanged from the v.127 research file and is not something accidently introduced by the mod pack guys.

==========================================
My modified Amonkrie Research file:

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Physics
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 2
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 3
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Ship Construction
Tech Area Level := 4
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Construction
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Weapon Platforms
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Mines
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Fighters
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Smaller Weapons
Tech Area Level := 1
Tech Area Min Percent := 100

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Torpedo Weapons
Tech Area Level := 8
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

Note that I have inserted Shields Lvl 2 immediately after Physics. I acknowledge that whether it should be Shields 1 or 2 could be debated, but Shields 2 isnt that expensive so I elected to go with it.

=========================================
This is the sort of stuff that I have concentrated on tweaking. It should be noted that the Modpack guys have made some improvements to the Research files, but, there were still a lot more things that could be improved.

I understand that Sinapus is working on tweaking the Research files (he has picked up a couple of things I missed) and I am hoping that eventually a comprehensive Research mod may be issued as part of mod pack.

All of my Posts so far have been with this eventual aim in mind. Again, I apologise if my Posts did not convey my intent adequately and sounded like grand standing instead.
Its just that the faults in the research files are so obvious when you look at them in detail, that I have been trying to make others aware that the AI is being weakened by something that can easily be fixed. I have emailed Aaron/Malfador but not recieved any response.

Regards,
God Emperor

[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 07 March 2001).]

Jon Brave · #4 March 7th, 2001, 09:33 PM

God Emperor,

Please don't feel you have to apologise! You must understand I/we are very appreciative of your efforts, however it may sound.

But your latest post is the *opposite* of what I'm looking for, it's so detailed. I'm sure its content is very good. I'm sure you're right that simple tweaks will improve the AI, which is exactly what I am looking for.

But what I don't understand --- and nor do others --- is a *simple* explanation of how/whether, say, your mods do/don't clash with other peoples', or are up-to-date with the latest patch etc. So I end up not using yours because of this. I do realise how complex all this is to explain briefly, but that's what people who want to *use* the mod, not *understand* it, need to know. If I'm going to use, say, the latest Version of the "standard" Mod Pack I've been going on about, how does yours fit in, precisely? Does the order of applying matter (well I guess that depends on whether you mod the same files). All this is so frustrating, I'll end up not patching & not remodding because of this, which is a shame. Perhaps if I read all the read.mes with a magnifying glass I'll understand, but when I've tried I get lost between different peoples' explanations... I just want a decent opponent

Nitram Draw · #5 March 7th, 2001, 10:28 PM

JB,
I had the same confusion over the order and compatibility of different mods.
I decided to use the TDM mod as the base mod because they did not add anything to the game that was not already in there. The TDM Mod pack affects a lot of areas in the standard races and gives a few new races. In the readme file they explain exactly what areas they tweaked on the races.
Other mods, God Emperors racemod and Sun Devils angermod come to mind, change specialized areas of the AI. If they change an area that is unmodified by an insatlled patch then the order you install them is not important. When both mods change the same file you have to make a choice.
The ones that you really need to pay attention to are mods that add new techs, weapons, etc. You may overwrite a file that is needed to make them work if you add mods in the wrong order.
Read the readme files carefully and try them out. Most of them are great.

God Emperor · #6 March 8th, 2001, 12:52 AM

Jon,
My research mod essentially changes the order in which the AI researches certain techs (in order to ensure that follow on techs are researched immediately) and also fixes some ommissions. As a result, the file does not impact upon any other data files and is safe to use with any other "tweak" mods (as opposed to those mods that introduce new technology areas).

My DesignCreation mod however includes the TechAreas data file, as it requires point defence to be available at game start. Again, it is compatible with any "tweak" mods that do not have changed TechAreas or DesignCreation files.

I have reviewed the mod pack Research, DesignCreation and TechAreas files and have concluded that my files can be used to overwrite them as they are "later Versions" which go beyond mod pack.

Similarly, I believe this to be the case for Sundevils mod which tweaks the Anger and Politics files, and which again does not impact on any other files that may have been tweaked.

Sundevil, Pathfinder, Mephisto, can you comment any further?

Mephisto · #7 March 8th, 2001, 01:10 AM

Mmm, I can add a "compatibility file" to the TDM_MOD that list all other MODs that can be added. In this case it would be required to sent me these MODs to my email but don't forget a Version number for your Mod!

[ June 27, 2002, 09:36: Message edited by: [K126]Mephisto ]