OT: Election 2004

[AMF]

I think the jury is out on whether the world is safer because of OIF, but it is unarguably true that Saddam was evil, it is a very good thing that we have him, and ditto for when we get Osama.

Problem being not only the issues that I laid out in my Last post, but that we have totally lost any moral superiority or claim to legitimacy becuase we LIED about the reason we went to war.

The actual war I was always of two minds on it, it was both a good and bad goal, but I am unequivocally of the opinion that the WAY in which we did it was extremely damaging to our credibility, the war on terror, and the post-cold-war order.

Becuase we LIED to INVADE another country, we violated most any precepts about international law and soveriegnty that we ourselves have protected for umpteen years, and hence everyone in the world can't help but think: OK, now the US is not someone we can rely upon to do anything but what is in their interest. And since they are so powerful, we can't stop them unless we oppose them. Eventually, a counter-balancing coalition may arise becuase of this. Poof, right back to Great Power politics, and a much more dangerous world...

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:
One difference is the US and the coalition did not go to Iraq to conquer it, plunder or rape it. We went to liberate it from an terrible dictator. I will not deny that part of why we went to Iraq was because of the oil, but this is a viable reason. We cannot give an unstable middle east the opertunity to hold the world hostage by threating to cut the oil supply. This is another reason we should begin to drill in Alaska and get working on those hydrogen cars. You cannot say the world is not a better place because of what has been done in Iraq.

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

Naw, we won't learn from your mistakes. We're the inheritors of your empire unfortunantly. Whatever lessons are gonna be learned will be learned the hard way while lining the pockets of Busch's friends and Halliburton Inc.
However before you think I'm a total cynic I would like to say that Iam glad for the overthrow of the Iraqi regime. The Husseins would have been in power for many more generations and would have probably been worst than they were. I think their is no nobler cause than removing dictators from power. Baby Doc, Milosovic, Hussein & Sons, The U.N. doesn't have the guts to do it. The only country I trust is the Swiss, and they don't have aircraft carriers. So it's America and friends to the rescue once again. Unfortunantly we were lied to and that is insulting to me and dishonest to our friends. I would have respected someone saying "Let's get Hussein because he is setting up a dynasty that represses democracy and threatens his neighbors" Even then I think N. Korea should have been first anyway. Who's next on the deposed world leaders?....BUSH?
I'm kind of a militant moderate, just so you know.

I think we need U.N. Elections monitors in Florida.

[Combat Wombat]

Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
Whatever lessons are gonna be learned will be learned the hard way while lining the pockets of Busch's friends and Halliburton Inc.

I'm sorry but I have this pet peeve about when people state things as fact when they have no actual evidence to back up their claims. There is no proof that anything has happened with Halliburton besides the fact that they over charged the US and got caught nothing showing the President had anything to do with it, if there was Kerry and the Democratic Party would be all over it. Lets stay away from conspiracy theory.
And why because Bush and Cheny were CEOs of a large company automaticlly make them evil or automaticlly prove that there is anything like what you said is going on.

My hands are starting to make loud cracks when I move them so I am going to try to cut down on large Posts.

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

And their never will be any evidence of collusion with Halliburton. As long as those with the gold make the rules and refuse to testify or release documents. I'm sick and pissed at the status quo and am I paranoid? Yes, and most my fears are coming true. I use to vote Republican but since the Fat Cats and Bible Thumpers have taken over the party my politics have gone just a little left. If only I could genetically combine McCain with Dean everything would be peachy.

[Combat Wombat]

If this is as deep and awful as you say it is, how did the information about them over charging get out in the first place?

[tesco samoa]

actually i think the fat cats are leaving the republican party for a while. Now its time for the other side for a few years.... The current party did what it thought was in the best interests of the country. This at this moment these decisions has been prooven to be a failure. I think that they should pay for their mistakes by being voted out.

If your a true republican. You should work to get your party back. And make sure that the 2012 Version is not another repeat of the 80's one and the current one.

If your a democrate. Look at the politicians. and look at who supports them via money and how they vote. And work to get rid of the right wing democrates.

America needs to get away from being a right wing country and it needs to seperate church from state. To me this is the reason why the west has advanced so much over the Last few hundred years.

[Combat Wombat]

How do you feel the government is not seperated from the church?