Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War

Mephisto · #1 June 28th, 2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psimancer:
i suspect most of them of being raised in a environment devoid of corporeal punishment
which means their personal developement is approximatly 30 years behind (once they hit 60 they might finally gain some common sense but i wont make book on it)

Isn't there a ironic smiley missing? If not I would suggest you better not raise children in Germany. Corporeal punishment of humans of any age (0-99 years) is a crime, even for parents, and you WILL get convicted for it (I have first hand knowledge as a co-Judge during my court stage).

Baron Munchausen · #2 June 28th, 2004, 11:53 PM

This view of child-rearing is unfortunately still very prevalent in the US, Mephisto. It might not be the 'majority' view anymore but it's still quite common. The readiness to use raw force in basic family life might have something to do with the over-use of raw force in our international policies, too.

Urendi Maleldil · #3 June 29th, 2004, 12:32 AM

I don't think a good spanking is corporal punishment. That's just discipline. Corporal punishment is when the teacher whacks you across the knuckles with a yardstick.

The real discipline problem is with families. A good chunk of the people I know come from divorced or crumbling homes. Kids need good moms and dads who teach with love and a strong hand. There just aren't that many of them anymore.

It's going to suck when they grow up to be presidents and world leaders... oh wait.

geoschmo · #4 June 29th, 2004, 03:02 AM

Despite my pre-conceived opinion about Moore, I actually would like to go see the movie. I appreciate hearing opinions that conflict with my own, and if nothing else I'm sure it would be good for a few laughs. However, I can't sit through the graphic scenes. I understand he's got scenes of dead and mutilated Iraqi's as well one of the hostage beheadings. While I can understand why he feels the need to show this for shock value or whatever, I don't need proof that war is hell.

Graphic imagary is quite shocking and compelling on an emotional level, but it does nothing to put forward a rational discussion of the issues and events around the descision to go to war.

No sane person loves war. But sane people can come to the conclusion that war is sometimes neccesary. Moore could have made the argument against the neccesity of the war without the graphic images. If he had I probably would have gone to see it.

[ June 29, 2004, 02:04: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Abdiel · #5 June 29th, 2004, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
This view of child-rearing is unfortunately still very prevalent in the US, Mephisto. It might not be the 'majority' view anymore but it's still quite common. The readiness to use raw force in basic family life might have something to do with the over-use of raw force in our international policies, too.

I totally reject that analogy. Spanking a child for disciplinary purpose is a whole world from invading a (not your child even) country for whatever reasons. If so, N Korea and Iran would have been hit a long time ago, instead of Iraq.

We should look for reasons outside of the Freudian world, which is totally ambiguous with its use of extrapolation out of (in this case) a completely unrelated historical incident(s).

Abd.

Baron Munchausen · #6 June 29th, 2004, 04:33 AM

Freud didn't originate the idea that childhood experience shapes the adult, so trying to associate my 'analogy' with Freud is not going to discredit it.

Abdiel · #7 June 29th, 2004, 05:40 AM

Fair enough. But argument by analogy is, in every case, a point for contention. And anyone can simply reject such an argument out of hand, philosophically.

Let's reword it to "Freud-esque" if that suits you better. But to link discipline in the family, being on the receiving end as a child, to the child as an adult tending towards military force... Now that's not such a clear-cut case.

Abd.