The Rage Collective 1.1

Q · #1 March 25th, 2001, 09:03 AM

Alpha Kodiak here I've got some more feedback for you:

In my game with full tech it's now about turn 110 and the Rage are doing fine after they had a hard time fighting against multiple stronger empires. For a while they ran out of resources but I play with no computer bonus. The resource problem was solved after I persuaded them into a Trade Alliance with me (United Federation of Planets). Now they are again constructing attack ships like mad!
In the combats I realized a major problem of the Rage: They use now as specified from you phased polaron beams as main weapon but you gave them maximum weapon range as strategy. This works not well. After I changed it to optimal weapon range they did much better. Maximum weapon range is good when you use missiles or if you have 100% hit chance by the religious talisman.
In another topic about minesweepers I proposed the inclusion of a minesweeper component in attack ships, because the AI (as the Rage) build minesweepers but they send them unprotected on mission so they got easily killed before the can sweep the minefields. I did this now for the Rage because many empires in my game use mines (including the Rage themselves) and the Rage lost many ships in the minefields. I seems to work very well!
One Last minor point: should a very aggressive race like the Rage not get angry about allied planets? Now they have "false" in the settings file.
Thank you again for your great work and I look forward to see more of it!

dumbluck · #2 March 26th, 2001, 02:56 AM

Well, i decided to take the plunge and add some of the mods out there. My question is if they will interfere with each other. so if i use the rage and, say, modpack 1.61, will they use the same files or anything like that, or do i not need to worry about this.

Also, any helpful hints for a newbie modder?

Alpha Kodiak · #3 March 26th, 2001, 04:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by dumbluck:
Well, i decided to take the plunge and add some of the mods out there. My question is if they will interfere with each other. so if i use the rage and, say, modpack 1.61, will they use the same files or anything like that, or do i not need to worry about this.

Also, any helpful hints for a newbie modder?

To the first question, the Rage is compatible with the modpack, and should be compatible with most mods because it only adds AI files for the Rage race. It does not change any other data files.

As to getting started, what I did was figure out what I did when I played that seemed to be effective against the AI. Then I came up with a plan for making a race that would a) do as many of those things as possible, and b) as impervious as possible to those things. After that, it became a process of looking at the AI files for some of the stock races and comparing them to the files for the most effective mod races. See what you like and what you dislike from each and try to put together the best combination possible.

It's mostly trial and error, and it takes a lot of time, but it is a lot of fun.

Alpha Kodiak · #4 March 26th, 2001, 04:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Q:
Alpha Kodiak here I've got some more feedback for you:

In my game with full tech it's now about turn 110 and the Rage are doing fine after they had a hard time fighting against multiple stronger empires. For a while they ran out of resources but I play with no computer bonus. The resource problem was solved after I persuaded them into a Trade Alliance with me (United Federation of Planets). Now they are again constructing attack ships like mad!
In the combats I realized a major problem of the Rage: They use now as specified from you phased polaron beams as main weapon but you gave them maximum weapon range as strategy. This works not well. After I changed it to optimal weapon range they did much better. Maximum weapon range is good when you use missiles or if you have 100% hit chance by the religious talisman.
In another topic about minesweepers I proposed the inclusion of a minesweeper component in attack ships, because the AI (as the Rage) build minesweepers but they send them unprotected on mission so they got easily killed before the can sweep the minefields. I did this now for the Rage because many empires in my game use mines (including the Rage themselves) and the Rage lost many ships in the minefields. I seems to work very well!
One Last minor point: should a very aggressive race like the Rage not get angry about allied planets? Now they have "false" in the settings file.
Thank you again for your great work and I look forward to see more of it!

The range issue presents an interesting problem. When I put together the plan for the Rage, I wanted them to be heavy missile Users to start, so if you start off with low tech, they use missiles for a long time. Until they get phased polaron beams, they don't currently use any direct fire weapons except for point defense. In that time frame, maximum weapons range works great.

I don't know how to change the strategy once they get direct fire weapons, and it seems like optimal weapons range leaves them more susceptible to the missile dance early on. I noticed that when I tested them in full-tech games they had a harder time than in low-tech-start games, and the range issue is a big part of the problem. I also noticed a drop off in performance in a low-tech game once most of the Rage ships were predominately direct fire.

If anyone knows how to shift the strategy with the new tech, I would love to hear how to do it.

Currently, the allied planet anger is close to a non-issue since they won't make treaties above non-aggression in v1.1 and not many of those. I set the anger setting to false early on because I hate it when I get an AI race to make a treaty, then they get mad because of the planets I own. I am thinking about letting the Rage do trade alliances again, so I'll have to decide what to do about the anger setting.

I do like the point about mine sweepers in attack ships. While I was testing the Rage, I was more confused than anything else, trying to figure out what it thought it was doing with mine sweepers. I saw it completely ignore a known mine field, even though it had sweepers available, then saw it send sweepers across enemy space trying to get to a minefield that didn't seem to be much in the way, at least to me. (The sweepers were killed in transit, so I never found out what the purpose was supposed to be.)

Q · #5 March 26th, 2001, 11:53 AM

Alpha Kodiak wrote:
"If anyone knows how to shift the strategy with the new tech, I would love to hear how to do it."
I don't think you can do it at this moment as well as you can't make a ship design obsolete for the AI in the design file. I proposed to MM to include a line in the design-construction that would make the AI not to use this design any more if a specified technology is available. Remember the problem with supply components and solar collectors in a ship with a quantum reactor? Same situation!

Windborne · #6 March 27th, 2001, 09:14 PM

The changes Q mentions are interesting, I may download the rage just for their AI when the next Version comes out, I wasn't impressed too much by the rage ships on universal shipyards but this AI sounds like a work of art. :0)

Alpha Kodiak · #7 March 28th, 2001, 04:17 PM

I've been playing around with some AI tweaks that address some of the issues mentioned here. I've switched the attack range to optimal firing range, and it seems to be working better. I'm trying to find a good balance point for mine sweepers on attack ships without weakening the attack ship to much, and a few other items.

I have a question on cloaks. For the Rage attack ships, is the cloaking device worth the space it takes? Does it make sense for the Rage to use the cloak at all, or should they just come in, guns blazing?

I'm still at least a few days out from releasing a new Version, but I like what I see so far. Thanks for the suggestions to this point, and please continue to give feedback. There is no way I could go through all the situations that this game throws at you by myself!