What is this piece of CRAP.....!

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by reaper67:
I cannot believe what an AWFUL, AWFUL game this is!!! I have been an avid player of Space Empires IV for YEARS, and as such I was expecting REALLY good things from this game...I even pre-ordered it TWO MONTHS before-hand...now, in hindsight, I wish I'd saved my £30!

For a start, the game has a 2D play field - whaaaat??!!?
Even the most BASIC game of this kind, even those available waaay before the millenium allowed 3D movement - even ELITE did, for God's sake!!
Secondly, as this wasn't bad enough, the ship GUI is so small (even in 1024 res) you have to virtually have your nose against the monitor to be able to see ANYTHING, particularly the system minimap which is completely unreadable.
The explosions and weapon effects are mediocre at best, the sound effects are uninspiring, even the music is tedious - christ, I could go on until the death knell of the world..

Personally, I think Malfador should have stuck to what they do best - good, solid 4X4 Empire building strategy - and left the 3D Privateer/Elite/Freelancer games arena to the big boys, cuz frankly they are EONS behind.

Sorry to dredge this back up from the depths, but.....

I, also, preordered Starfury. It has, so far, lived up to my expectations. To take my long time familiararity with SEIV into this immersive 3D environment, despite it's 2d plane of movement, has been mesmorizing at least! Because of the modibility, I soon hope to be piloting the USS Voyager through mission after mission, all in 3D!!!! COOL!!!!

If what you wanted was another hurried, bugged, 3D gaming experience, I guess you came to the wrong place. If you wanted a game that would make you a Captain of your own ship in an SEIV environment, and expecting the kind of support that was given the SE series, then this game will have no bounds and generate the replayability that has garnished SEIV!!

Gandalph the Grey

[DarkStar]

I too was surprised by the lack of 3D movement in the game. When I first heard about the game and how it was going to be like Elite I thought that it would include some type of 3D movement, even if it was basic. It wasn't until I tried the demo that I found out it was some strange 2D arcade movement and didn't feel like moving in space. Even the old Elite on the Commodore 64 felt like you were in space, and had basic 3D movement, and a VERY slick map that showed Z values with the height of the lines, very nice design IMHO.

I haven't played enough of the DEMO to know if it really matters or not, but does seem strange that it's 2D when all those older games had 3D movement in them, and it is 2003. I think adding 3D would have made the game much better.

I don't really have any problems with the graphics or sound I think they are fine and are at the level I expected.

I will say that I don't really like the way the movement/turning of the ship is done. It really seems like I'm driving a car on the freeway and it's some type of space racing game or something. I don't get the feeling I'm moving a ship thru space, and it's like I'm stuck on a rail, also there is no drift accel, or deccel on the movement which again feels very strange and arcade like.

Everything else I think is great and works very well, overall a good design. Outfitting your ship and all that is pretty cool, and fun. The combat is good, but again could be better if it was 3D.

I have liked all MM games (and own them all, including SE4, and SE4 GOLD), and the fact you can mod it is a big plus. The demo seems pretty fun, so I'm sure I'll pick it up at some point.

Just my 2 cents...

[DeadZone]

I do believe that movement can be vastly improved over time
And perhaps Aaron could try his hand of put a little 3D into even if you only go high and low enuf to avoid small planets
Basically put, lets just hope by SEV, or even SF2 (if he does it) he will have been able to put some sort of 3D into it
If not, then nvr mind still a great game IMO

[Corporate Dog]

Just installed the game, haven't really played it yet at all (just kinda moved my ship around the starting sector) and I too am a little disappointed in the 2D-only plane of movement.

For those of you saying "it would be so hard to implement 3D movement", and "the 2D-only movement makes it easier to mod"... you're coming across as big-time apologists for Malfador.

Technically, the game IS a 3D game already. Unless the ships in the game are prerendered (and I'm 99.9% sure they aren't) then Malfador's already using the Direct3D API to display, scale, and move everything around in the form of 3D models. A third axis of movement is already accounted for in all the API function calls... it's just not being used.

And since, in order to mod the ships, we're going to have to edit 3D models anyway, it doesn't make modding easier AT ALL.

So, in the end, I'm guessing the 2D movement was a DESIGN consideration. Malfador wanted the game to play as less of a flight simulator and more of a tactical game.

That's fine, and I certainly intend to play more of the game before I dismiss it as casually as the first poster did (it's still got a lot of the features that make Elite one of my favorite games)... but just from my brief foray into the game, I have to say it doesn't feel like I'm controlling a starship at all.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

[ October 12, 2003, 04:23: Message edited by: Corporate Dog ]

[milo]

I'm guessing the 2D movement was a DESIGN consideration

Yes, of course it was. As you rightly point out, adding 3D movement to a 3D environment is not a great technical hurdle. However, just providing the player with some kind of pitch control would not be sufficient. Just off the top of my head, the game would also need:

• New AI algorithms for NPC ships to take advantage of 3D
• New weapon and shield rules to account for elevation as well as azimuth
• New camera system to help player see targets above and below his ship
• 6DOF physics model for all ships
  

All that would result in a huge change of emphasis in the way Starfury plays. The game would become less goal-oriented, and more process-oriented. It would also become more difficult, especially for people who have a hard time solving spacial puzzles.

[DeadZone]

That does sound good
Just SF Grid funtion could look bad with 3d movement so if Aaron does go for it perhaps instead the grid could be a sphere

[ October 12, 2003, 11:13: Message edited by: DeadZone ]

[Corporate Dog]

Originally posted by milo:

quote:

---

I'm guessing the 2D movement was a DESIGN consideration

Yes, of course it was.

---

... as opposed to a lack of programming skill or resources, which the first poster seemed to imply. I was on your side with that statement.

However, just providing the player with some kind of pitch control would not be sufficient. Just off the top of my head, the game would also need:

Believe me, I fully understand and appreciate all the other functions that would be needed to bring 3D movement into the game (AI is certainly a very large consideration). I'm not coming into this discussion as a player, but as a programmer myself.

Still, I feel that just producing the game that they produced was half the battle right there.

All that would result in a huge change of emphasis in the way Starfury plays. The game would become less goal-oriented, and more process-oriented. It would also become more difficult, especially for people who have a hard time solving spacial puzzles.

Very true. It WOULD have been a completely different game. That isn't necessarily a bad thing... first person shooters are difficult for me, but that doesn't mean they're poorly designed.

I think some of us were coming from the angle of "Wow. It's Elite with capitol-class ships, a third-person view, and more strategic considerations."

From a super-tactical point of view, yes, that's exactly what it is. You've got a mostly freeform trading game with ship-to-ship combat, and vessel design.

From a tactical viewpoint, that's not what we got at all. Spacial "puzzles" were a key part of Elite, but they aren't quite there in Starfury (or at least not in a 3D environment).

Take a look at 'Star Trek: Bridge Commander'. I think the gameplay could've been improved significantly in that title by streamlining and simplifying all of the combat/control options, and that's sort of what I expected out of Starfury.

In spite of that, I felt that Bridge Commander managed to provide a game with an EXTREMELY strategic/tactical feel in three dimensions. In that game, it FELT like you were piloting a capitol ship.

I've seriously considered building a "Car Wars" mod for Starfury. That's how generic the 2D movement feels to me (and, on the flipside, shows how flexible the modability feature is).

Regards,
Corporate Dog