What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY!

Kristoffer O · #1 October 16th, 2003, 09:22 PM

I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know). This doesn't mean that there will never be any diplomacy, but it means that if it will be made it will be so out of a sudden whim.

An outstanding AI might also see the day of light if one of you guys suddenly comes up with a simple yet brilliant system for a diplomatic AI that is unabusable.

Meanwhile you will have to wait and hope.

st.patrik · #2 October 16th, 2003, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:
I would be seriously surprised and even slightly offended if you consider my Posts as the ones not in line with desire for honest dialogue. I assure you that there is no malice intended or involved behind any of them, not directed to you, and not to anyone else either, regardless of whether they are in this thread or other threads. But let's not talk abut that any more, and let's not do finger pointing; feel free to pm me if you think I personally was out of line.

I didn't mean that you in particular were not interested in honest dialogue - in fact reading over your Posts I notice that you have not made the kind of comments I was reacting against. So I apologise if I communicated otherwise, and thank you for your thoughtful response.

Mortifer · #3 October 16th, 2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know). This doesn't mean that there will never be any diplomacy, but it means that if it will be made it will be so out of a sudden whim.

An outstanding AI might also see the day of light if one of you guys suddenly comes up with a simple yet brilliant system for a diplomatic AI that is unabusable.

Meanwhile you will have to wait and hope.

I have some ideas, I will post about it.
Gotta run, no time now.
I am happy that you lads @ Illwinter are paying enough attention, and listening to our ideas and suggestions!

I will be back tomorrow, I will post my detailed ideas than.

DominionsFan · #4 October 16th, 2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
I think the major problem with diplo AI is that I don't know anything about AI coding and JK is bored by it (he made the AI so he should know).

bored? LOL?

Taqwus · #5 October 16th, 2003, 11:19 PM

*shrug*

I normally don't play multi since I'm not inclined to take games that seriously, and thus veer strongly towards the silly side rather than being a serious, competitive player. I'm more of a "ooh, let's try this and see what happens" chap rather than one who'll carefully plan ahead, figuring out a focused strategy e.g. what to research, when to start summoning seasonal spirits, et al.

But for those that do play MP, beefing up the in-game messaging capabilities wouldn't be a bad idea. *shrug* And yes, it could be done out of the game, but not as conveniently. Eh.

Aristoteles · #6 October 17th, 2003, 02:14 PM

Ok here is my idea:

We need a relationship bar. That way we will be able to see the relations with the other nations. Also there should be a a huge table with all relations. IE. between AI A and AI F, or between AI B and AI G, etc.

Basic options should be:

Send gold
Send magic gems
Transfer / Give unit(s)
Transfer / Give province(s)

Basic hostile options

Demand gold
Demand magic gems
Demand provinces

Diplomatic options

Right of Passage / Passage Agreement
Trade Embargo
Non Agression Pact
Alliance (against)
Total Alliance

All actions will raise / lower the relationship between the nations. Basic Options will raise the relationship, any hostile actions & basic hostile options will lower it.

Hostile actions what will lower the relationship:

-Sending spies

-Attacking a nation whose relations with the 'target' is good. [No alliance or any diplo relations between them, just good relationship!]IE. You want good relations with AI A. The relations between AI A and AI B is very good. You are attacking AI B.
Your relations with AI A will be decreased, greatly.

-Casting any hostile spells. This should work like the above one, IE. You want good relations with AI A. The relations between AI A and AI B is very good. You are casting some hostile spells against AI B.
Your relations with AI A will be decreased.

-Attacking a nation should lower the relations to -100. Also lets say that you attacked AI A.
There was an alliance between AI A, AI B and AI C.
Your relations should be -100 with AI A, AI B and AI C after the attack.

The relationship bar is quite simple, the max is 100, the min is -100. 100 is the best, -100 is the worst.

Now about the abuse. If you are sending lot of gold/giving away units etc, will increase your relations for sure. If you call that abusing, than we wont have a good diplo AI in any games EVER
Just think what happened in history. The various empires always used this way to improve their relations with other Kingdoms/Empires. This is supposed to work like this.

[ October 17, 2003, 13:21: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

Kristoffer O · #7 October 17th, 2003, 03:11 PM

I wasn't entirely serious, but if you want to try to think up a diplomatic AI I don't mind.

As I said we need a simple yet brilliant system. You give suggestions on options and diplomatic actions that lower or increases the relations. These can be added later, when there is a system that works.

Instead try to figure out how relationships are measured, how they change, when the AI makes war, how to react to stronger/weaker players, how to measure other players stance against each other (is it better to gang up on one player?), does the AI have a long memory (and what does it remember) or does it only have a current relationship measure (very abusable) etc.

We will never implement giving troops away.