What did I missed from Dom I.? -> DIPLOMACY!

[Zerger]

Yeah, I think that trading items is a bad idea.
Sending gold, gems, or transferring provinces is enough.
Those cannot be abused. + The devs won't have to mess around with 2000 items.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mortifer:
Yeah, that is true. Hrm maybe trading items shouldn't be allowed at all?
Or just limit it? Let's say only 'common'** items should be traded, like a flaming sword, etc.

**Items what won't cause any trouble 'abusing wise'.

I think that would be more trouble than its worth. I dont mean to seem bragging or anything but I can almost gaurantee you that if your list infludes a couple of dozen items I will find one that I can abuse.

Just for an example.... there are some armor items that would be great for pangaea but sending them to ulm would cause ulm to downgrade his commanders. Some swords also.

---

Perhaps there could be a nation-specific list of abusable and non-abusable items? RoLK might be abusable with Marignon, but C'tis and Ermor are a diffrent story. And do we count items that are potent(Robe of the Magi, Lifelong Protection), but Horror Mark or Curse the wearer abusable items?

[Particle]

Originally posted by Zerger:
Yeah, I think that trading items is a bad idea.
Sending gold, gems, or transferring provinces is enough.
Those cannot be abused. + The devs won't have to mess around with 2000 items.

Yeah, I agree.
Well if the devs will have time, they should sort out the items, and perhaps trading items should be allowed than.

[Aristoteles]

Ok so my diplo system idea is good than.

I don't know too much about diplo AI, but there must be some way to prevent the abusing.
Those global effects via diplo abusing sounds very cool. When the AI will detect that you are trying to double cross him with a fake alliance, and there will be big penalties for it, no one will abuse the diplo AI than.

I have another idea, maybe there should be a minimum time limit for alliances. Like for 10 turns you cannot cancel the alliance, and for additional 10 you cannot attack your former ally.

The AI must have a long memory, IE it must remember all major things, like alliances, wars, global spells, aggression, etc.

Items. Well the trading items is a very good part of the game, but you can abuse it. If it will be allowed to trade items, that must affect diplomacy.
All items must be categorized. Also only the "usable by everyone" items should be allowed to trade. Than we wont have a situation that the item is good good for "XY" but it is not good for "VZ". If you are giving away a good item, the relations will improve, if you are giving away a bad item, the relation points will decrease.
There is a more simple way, only allow "good, usable by everyone" items to trade.

[ October 18, 2003, 11:30: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

[Gandalf Parker]

Any game which has allowed gifting provinces/planets/colonies/outPosts has been abused by me big-time. Ive used it to manipulate wars between AIs or to abuse an AI as a buffer zone. I would put the reaction to province gifts as low as magic items, with a much higher reaction to gold and gems.

And adding time to alliances might be good. One thing that developed in the MP games was non-aggression pacts which had something like a 3-turn notice. If you gave the 3-turn notice before breaking the alliance then there were no extra consequences. Breaking an alliance without warning tended to have "global" consequences with the other players. Maybe that could be worked into the AI agreements also.

[ October 18, 2003, 13:59: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[-Storm-]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
And adding time to alliances might be good. One thing that developed in the MP games was non-aggression pacts which had something like a 3-turn notice. If you gave the 3-turn notice before breaking the alliance then there were no extra consequences. Breaking an alliance without warning tended to have "global" consequences with the other players. Maybe that could be worked into the AI agreements also.

Yeah, that is the way to stop abusing.

How can you abuse things, like giving provinces?
You mean you are giving a province to raise the relations, right? Well that is normal.
Never forget, that the AI will do it too, and maybe you will be gang banged by the AI. That is the wonderful part of diplomacy.

[PDF]

Originally posted by Aristoteles:
Ok so my diplo system idea is good than.

I don't know too much about diplo AI, but there must be some way to prevent the abusing.
Those global effects via diplo abusing sounds very cool. When the AI will detect that you are trying to double cross him with a fake alliance, and there will be big penalties for it, no one will abuse the diplo AI than.

I have another idea, maybe there should be a minimum time limit for alliances. Like for 10 turns you cannot cancel the alliance, and for additional 10 you cannot attack your former ally.

The AI must have a long memory, IE it must remember all major things, like alliances, wars, global spells, aggression, etc.

Items. Well the trading items is a very good part of the game, but you can abuse it. If it will be allowed to trade items, that must affect diplomacy.
All items must be categorized. Also only the "usable by everyone" items should be allowed to trade. Than we wont have a situation that the item is good good for "XY" but it is not good for "VZ". If you are giving away a good item, the relations will improve, if you are giving away a bad item, the relation points will decrease.
There is a more simple way, only allow "good, usable by everyone" items to trade.

You're talking about AIs as if they were real beings ... Back to Earth, man, those are only lines of codes, and ALL AIs are and will be abused for at least 20 years more