3d battle scenes are looking horrible! :(

MythicalMino · #1 September 22nd, 2003, 04:25 PM

I totally agree....AoW2 totally sucked....then, Shadow Magic came out, and everyone on the Boards said that it fixed everything in AoW2...so, I bought it...30 bucks down the drain...meanwhile, a gem called Dominions was waiting for me to discover it.

Personally, I think that illwinter has pulled off something harder than the folks that did AoW...just compare the size of the teams involved...

Sure, Shadow Magic might be pretty, but that only gets you so far (at least with me)...gameplay is what matters...Shadow Magic i played, but every game seemed the same....gameplay to me sucked....really really really bad....

Dominions, the gameplay is infinite....(or near to)...and Dominions II only builds on that....no, I would pay 50 dollars for Dominions II (hell, I would pay 40 or more for Dominions I, now that I know what the game has to offer)...If I could go back in time, I wouldn't give a nickel short of dollar for it...

PDF · #2 September 22nd, 2003, 04:47 PM

Bah,
Entertainment economy doesn't work on a "quality price" basis, crappy movies and books cost as much as good ones !
It's just a matter of Return on Investment : how many copies will sell regarding development effort.
Dom2 costed something like 2-3 man/years, and will sell maybe 5,000 : that's only 250,000 bucks for Shrapnel and Illwinter to reward their work. not that much. Before that Illwinter sold the games but didn't expect to make a linving of it.

OTOH, a big hit can sell 1,000,000, and so generates 50M money : even if half of that is going to the retail stores, there still is 25M for publishers and devs ... That's more than enough even for a 2-year 20 devs teams !
AoW2 falls somewhere inbetween, I don't have the sales figures, maybe in the 100,000 range or more.

Anyway, Mortifer, I gave you 3 stars

Mortifer · #3 September 22nd, 2003, 04:56 PM

cpbeller - you are very unique I must say. I know like 40 players who cannot stop playing Shadow Magic, because it is so good. To me Shadow Magic is lot better than Dominions, but that not means that I wont play Dom II.

MythicalMino · #4 September 22nd, 2003, 05:01 PM

i just didn't like AoW2, or Shadow Magic...everything in the game(s) pointed to that I would enjoy it...but I never did...and couldn't force myself to play it for very long...It does have good production values and all...but for me...the game is just too boring...

Mortifer · #5 September 22nd, 2003, 05:04 PM

Its all cool! We are different in every way, that is making the world wonderful!

licker · #6 September 22nd, 2003, 05:41 PM

AoW 2 cost $50 or more didn't it? AoW SM cost significantly less, as it was more of an addon to AoW 2, even though it is a stand alone product. I'm a big fan of the AoW series though, I've played them all, but I have to say that AoW 2 was seriously flawed in many ways, and SM, while correcting alot of the issues that 2 had, still seems to be lacking in some regaurds. Of course its all personal opinion, if you want the more epic feel Dom is the direction to go, if you want a more beer and pretzels game AoW is still the best in its class.

The big issue for me is and always will be SP, as I really don't have the time for MP, and PBEM is too slow for my tastes, though in Dom it is less of a problem as the turn mechanics and overall pace seem a better fit for me. SP in AoW SM is ok for a while, then it rapidly decends into utter boredom as you are forced to micro your cities and armies to a horrible extent. Dom may not be much better, but hopefully Dom2 will fix some of the micro hell that Dom1 contains. Another problem bedeviling AoW SM is the lack of variety in composing your armies. Most races have 3-4 units that simply never get built ever, and once you pass a certain point in the game lvl1 units are never built either (other than the occasional ranged unit for garrison duty). Eventully even the lvl2s are never built. That is a failling of many games though, not having a place for every unit in the game. Dom seems to do better at this, though I'm sure there are some units for some nations that are rarely built.

The gfx and sound for AoW are excellent though, and the game does deserve credit for that, no matter how unimportant it may be to some individuals. The reality is that a game with excellent game play but poor gfx will remain a cult classic, never gaining the acclaim it deserves. Sad to say that perhaps, but what can you do? There is always a crowd that can't get past the gfx, and they are a larger crowd than the grognards who value gameplay over eye candy.

I think that Dom2 looks quite good (much improved over Dom1), and though I can't comment on the sound or music, I don't really care (I normally turn it all off anyway). Hopefully Dom2 will get the praise and sales it deserves, in the end only the total quality of the game will determine what that should be

LordArioch · #7 September 22nd, 2003, 07:07 PM

Dominions SP is better than Shadow magic SP for sure...fighting the shadow magic ai is basically just killing lots of level 1 units and getting hit by random damage spells. Also as mentioned before there are only a few useful units despite attempts to fix the issue in shadow magic. And with the "AI ignores concealment" and protections being pretty much worthless there really arent many special abilites per unit. It looks like a lot until you realize fire protection, walking, and strike all mean nothing...charge is a generic attack boost more or less...with a few exceptions of pure non-physical damage the game basically becomes "stronger units beat weaker ones" with very little subtelty....and the magic is all add to stats, summon, or do damage...nothing really interesting to add strategic complexity
Maybe MP is better, but it just seems to add more time inbetween the boring turns to me
I admit the graphics are nice...but the music all sounds too similar for me. Honestly I find AoW more micro as you need to do combat after combat to keep your stupid ai from killing your units, without much thought in each of the battles.

And although more man hours were probably put into AoW, you have to consider that with the large number of copies that sell compared to Dominions 2 the profit/man hour ratio is going to be signifigantly higher even if they are the same price. And all because people want to stare at the nymph.
And I also believe in paying for quality

If somebody made a 6 hour long movie would you pay 3 times as much to watch that as a 2 hour long movie just because it took longer to make? I might pay more in the theory it offers more enjoyment, but not 3 times as much.