Dead pretender poll

Jasper · #1 October 6th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wick:
I don't think Communion effects Magic Duel. That was the conclusion posted on csipgs and, while the test I just ran wasn't statistically significant, it didn't favor the Communion. It might have been significant if I had realized Magic Duel is an area spell!

My test was four sets with four Theurgs and eight Communicants on each side. The Theugs using Communion Master lost 8 of 16. The others lost 12 of 16. Oddly, the attacking teams lost 15 of 16, making me wonder if Magic Duel does still (v1.15) favor the caster? When hitting more then one target does it use the strongest target's magic?

I recall one of the devs (JK?) saying the attacker still got a bonus, like winning ties or something.

Also, I hadn't realized it was an area spell?! I'm not even really sure what that would mean...
Can a single instance of Magic Duel kick off three Duels?!

[ October 06, 2003, 08:58: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Wick · #2 October 6th, 2003, 10:03 AM

[/qb][/quote]I recall one of the devs (JK?) saying the attacker still got a bonus, like winning ties or something.

Also, I hadn't realized it was an area spell?! I'm not even really sure what that would mean...
Can a single instance of Magic Duel kick of three Duels?![/QB][/quote]

More then that if you can find six dwarfs with Astral magic!

Winning ties would leave it 21/15 in favor of the attacker which agrees tolerably with the lab results. It's a pretty significant advantage really.

johan osterman · #3 October 6th, 2003, 10:37 AM

Attacker wins ties.

PDF · #4 October 6th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Attacker wins ties.

Shouldn'it be fairer if defender wins in this case ?
If I've understood the mechanisms (Astral + 1D6), then currently a +1 advantage in Astral gives an attacker 72% to win, and even with -1 he still has 50% !

Nerfix · #5 October 6th, 2003, 04:58 PM

I am only now getting free from my Rainbow Mage syndrome, so i have litle experience with combat pretenders, so i haven't lost a single pretender to Magic Duel, and all my Astral gods have been either RB's or "Astral Kings" with 9 in Astral(i'm practising for Dom II already...).
But i have seen my Starchild(with Starshine Skullcap) killing enemy Wyrm pretender with Astral Duel...

Nagot Gick Fel · #6 October 6th, 2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PDF:
Shouldn'it be fairer if defender wins in this case ?
If I've understood the mechanisms (Astral + 1D6), then currently a +1 advantage in Astral gives an attacker 72% to win, and even with -1 he still has 50% !

As I understand it, with a -1 disadvantage the attacker gets only 42% chances to win. Actually the attacker always gets (6-difference)/36 % better odds to win, as long as the difference is less than 6 (then it's either suicide or automatic victory).

Kristoffer O · #7 October 6th, 2003, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
I typically like to have Pretenders who can fight well in battle, and losing them due to random chance just happens. It's frustrating when it's due to random chance (e.g. a 30 gold mortal commander attacking my Medusa, not being stoned, actually hitting, and then doing 50+ damage in one swing, but it's not that bad because you had to account for the chance when creating your Pretender anyway.

Note that this poll is a bit self fulfilling: I've never _lost_ a Pretender to Mind Duel, as I rarely play with Astral on a Pretender, and when I do I try to have lots. I have killed Pretenders this way...

After trying Astral Pretenders, I've softened my anti Mind Duel stance, but the expense of at least Astral 5-6 and risk of Astral Pretenders repeatedly dying to Mind Duel still makes me avoid playing them.

Mind Duel is enough to make _many_ players use house rules to ban it's use, and IMHO pretty much hoses Marignon, and greatly adds to Pythium's power (errr, assuming Communion adds to Mind Duel, which I can't be sure about).

Hmm, yes, it was a bit self fullfilling. I happened to have a third question in my poll setup and wasn't sure how to formulate my question. Take it for what it is (almost pointless).

My main interest was how often people lose their pretenders and how they take it. It is less fun to play when your enemy has almost given up, just because he gambled with his god and lost.

Regarding communion: I'm not sure, but I believe it has an effect. I also believe that all communicants will suffer from the same fate if one of them is slayed in a magic duel (this might be Dom II, or might not be implemented at all, I'll have to ask JK).

Regarding the initiator winning ties. Do you believe the opposite would lessen the impact of magic duels in pretender design and in marignon-arco/pythium balance?

I am feeling a hostile usenet dominion with a strong order scale altering my perceptions.