Dominion effects

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

Higher growth rate is NOT absurd. This is a land of magic, remember? Not to mention that high-growth provinces are lush, beautiful, attractive places to live, and should draw immigrants (pop increase is never defined as "through births only"). Lastly... who says months are 30 days long (or days 24 hours)? That's an Earth thing. If months represent more time, population growth per month could be arbitrarily high, yet still realistic.

9% Growth a year is very high even for a magical world, the population in a province more than quadrouples every generation. Besdides, I like that population is by and large a diminishing resource, it makes the game more apocalyptic.

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by johan osterman:

Besdides, I like that population is by and large a diminishing resource, it makes the game more apocalyptic.

That explains spells like Wrath of God, Illwinter, Second Sun and summoning of Demon Lords...

[ October 18, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[apoger]

100% agreement with Saber on this. This is a fantasy game. Balance is more important that realism. Besides you can always explain growth as immigration or increased number of people now prosperous enough to pay taxes.

I understand the intention behind making Production +3 less needed, however my fear is that we will end with the exact opposite situation where competive players will almost always favor -3. Again I haven't seen the new game in action... but this is my concern.

In Dom I, I would often take Prod +3, Drain +3. If that has now changed to Sloth +3, Magic +3, we have a shift, but there is still imbalance. The idea is to inspire the use of all scales, not to rotate problems.

With the information at hand (which is limited) it appears that Order +3 is almost required. Production and Growth look watered down to the point that I'm not sure I care about them. Luck looks the same as always. Magic looks like the new place to toss the extra nation points.

With less gold but lots of points to spend on magic and magic scale, my thought is that players are going to go crazy making super combatant pretenders.

I'd like to hear from some of the beta testers, as you guys have much more experience in this matter than I. What scale choices have you been inspired to use? How does the balance between military and magic feel, in your opinion.

We don't have a demo to examine yet, please throw us a bone.

[Pocus]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
9% Growth a year is very high even for a magical world, the population in a province more than quadrouples every generation.

I dont quite follow, how you deduce from a 0.6% growth a turn that you get 9% a year? Correct me if I'm wrong but you have decided that a game turn is a season no?

Besdides, I like that population is by and large a diminishing resource, it makes the game more apocalyptic.

I know that, and this is why I feel you are biased against growth, whatever our arguments could be. The game is sufficiently apocalyptic with the end game magical arsenal we have, you dont have to diminish the growth rate to induce this feeling, frankly. With tidal waves, black plagues etc., raising the growth rate to an acceptable level (ie to the point that 120 design points are worth spending) would not change much the resilience of provinces against these spells.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Pocus:
I dont quite follow, how you deduce from a 0.6% growth a turn that you get 9% a year? Correct me if I'm wrong but you have decided that a game turn is a season no?

It was hanging in the air little in dom 1, turns might even have been refered to as alternatively months or seasons within the game. In dom 2 a turn is defined as a month.

I know that, and this is why I feel you are biased against growth, whatever our arguments could be. The game is sufficiently apocalyptic with the end game magical arsenal we have, you dont have to diminish the growth rate to induce this feeling, frankly. With tidal waves, black plagues etc., raising the growth rate to an acceptable level (ie to the point that 120 design points are worth spending) would not change much the resilience of provinces against these spells.

I guess all my preferences constitute biases, so yes I am biased against growth. In the end dominions is the way it is because of JK and Kristoffers different biases, one of these biases which I share is a bias against growth.

[ October 18, 2003, 19:48: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Wick]

"With less gold but lots of points to spend on magic and magic scale, my thought is that players are going to go crazy making super combatant pretenders."

I was wondering about something related. The betas seem to think a 9 and two 4 magic paths are reasonable on a pretender. I've never played a MP end game and most of my pretenders have <7 in all paths combined. What does one do with that much magic!? None of the summonings or items needed over a five, likewise battlefield enchantments and defensive spells. Are globals or better offensive combat casting that important? "That" depending on what else you can use the design points for, of course.

I still want to see a truely horrific 200+pt chassis for an Ermorian combat pretender. The immense creature crawled forward disolving flesh, blood, and even the very stones in its path...

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Wick:
"With less gold but lots of points to spend on magic and magic scale, my thought is that players are going to go crazy making super combatant pretenders."

I was wondering about something related. The betas seem to think a 9 and two 4 magic paths are reasonable on a pretender. I've never played a MP end game and most of my pretenders have <7 in all paths combined. What does one do with that much magic!? None of the summonings or items needed over a five, likewise battlefield enchantments and defensive spells. Are globals or better offensive combat casting that important? "That" depending on what else you can use the design points for, of course.

I still want to see a truely horrific 200+pt chassis for an Ermorian combat pretender. The immense creature crawled forward disolving flesh, blood, and even the very stones in its path...

Part of the idea behind the new variable bless effects was to encourage players to make less wimpy pretender, not neccesarily combat pretender but pretenders with respectable magic abilities. In dom 1 if you wanted to play competetively two paths with 6 were probably not a good design decision in most cases, hopefully now it might be.

And there are battlefield spells that require more than 5, but of course you can reach higher values by communion or items etc instead.