Poll: How much will the new bless effects affect your pretender design?

[Aetius]

Originally posted by HJ:
I think that it would equalize things too much, as everybody would in the end get the same bonuses, and therefore diminish the variability inherent in the present system. Furthermore, it would make the sacrifices that you have to make while creating a pretender unneccessary, as you can always make up for it later. This way it's deterministic, and either you sacrifice the points to get a good bless or you don't, but there's no going back - a tradeoff that you have to live with. Also, it would put too much focus on empowering your pretender, as opposed to doing other things with the gems.

I disagree - your approach seems too deterministic. There are many things late game to pump gems into, powerful summons, global enchantments, even some of the more powerful battle spells. And thus there would still be tradeoffs late game as opposed to a one time only decision at the start of the game - maybe that approach suits you but for myself, no thanks.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by geo981010:
The shroud would still be great for some supercombatants though, especially for Ice Devils. Their base armor of 15, up to 20 in the cold, so the armor effect is icing. Getting regeneration, Beserk + 3, 50% poison res, and possibly other bonuses too (reinvig seems like a good choice and a Great Mother allows this) and you have a supercombatant that only takes 5 gems of equipment. I hacked a map and made an Ice Devils (I got Nycafor) with just the shroud, and he was really nasty even with the new tweaks to reduce supercombatants.

I can't wait to play Pythium with an Earth +4 mage, too

I wouldn't quite describe extra protection for Ice Devils as icing. Close to essential in a province with heat scale as they can melt away before even feeble opponents and there will be tough stuff around by the time you can summon one. I agree the Shroud is a damn good idea - especially for the earth 9, nature 9 earth mother option of Jotun. The Ice Devil has alot of slots and with a limit on how many Ice Devil's you can use I would fill alot-to-almost all of the slots. With regeneration and a Wraith Sword the ability to recover HP's should be quite remarkable.

The reinvigorated sacred Pythium mages could be insane I want to try with Abysia, I have always had a prejudice against the Romans, but I don't think that side of the design will be anywhere near as impressive as Pythiums uses.

Don't worry, be happy . . .

Keir

[HJ]

Originally posted by Aetius:
I disagree - your approach seems too deterministic. There are many things late game to pump gems into, powerful summons, global enchantments, even some of the more powerful battle spells. And thus there would still be tradeoffs late game as opposed to a one time only decision at the start of the game - maybe that approach suits you but for myself, no thanks.

To me it seems that everybody would be getting the same bless bonuses later on, and therefore blur alot of things that make each game distinct now. In addition, it would diminish the incentive to try out new pretenders with different sets of bless effects.

I guess we'll have to agree that we disagree on this.

[geo981010]

I'm glad this thread is still active - it's been fun!

Seems like the blessings are starting to be appreciated, and maybe only some tweaking should be done. Niefel is pretty nasty as long as you can keep things cold, and I've been having a lot of fun with the 9 Earth 4 Nature Sacred Serpent Pythium. I think that is a very good starting race, and the Serpent mages are really suited for to win a research war. Not as powerful as Arch Theurgs, but are recuitable anywhere, much cheaper (3 holy, 3 magics plus 1 random for only 190 GP), and half upkeep from holy. +magic scale and you will be Foul Vapouring by turn 10, and Beserking Hydras and SMs are immune to boot.

One area I don't think anyone has argued for though - Level 10 magics. Cost from raising 9 to 10:
80 - (initial magic strength * 8)

And what do you get? +1 Attack/Defense/Reinvig/etc! There effects are totally not worth that cost, and the highest spell only requires level 9 to cast, so I can't see this being anything but a trap for newbies to sink points into.

How about a second bonus for getting +10? There are some good potential specials that would be viable: Fire Shield, Charge Body, Water Shield, Stoneskin, Luck, Life Stealing Attack, Barkskin, Harm effect on hits, etc. OK, some of these would need balancing, but give me a reason to try a +10 pretender!

[ November 08, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: geo981010 ]

[Sammual]

Originally posted by geo981010:
One area I don't think anyone has argued for though - Level 10 magics. Cost from raising 9 to 10:
80 - (initial magic strength * 8)

And what do you get? +1 Attack/Defense/Reinvig/etc! There effects are totally not worth that cost, and the highest spell only requires level 9 to cast, so I can't see this being anything but a trap for newbies to sink points into.

How about a second bonus for getting +10? There are some good potential specials that would be viable: Fire Shield, Charge Body, Water Shield, Stoneskin, Luck, Life Stealing Attack, Barkskin, Harm effect on hits, etc. OK, some of these would need balancing, but give me a reason to try a +10 pretender!

I have asked for the same thing. There is NOTHING worth the points to take level 10.
I would like to see the cost drasticly lowered or the 10th level made worth it.

Sammual