Repel attempt bonuses

[Arralen]

Is the 1-point-damage from repelling "generic" or does it take into account special weapon properties, e.g. can repelling trigger poisoning, special (added) weapon damage or damage type (elfbane: dissolve magic beings)?

A.

[ December 30, 2003, 07:33: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[Taqwus]

Hm. If so, banshees would have a pretty impressive repel (length 6, area-1, MR-or-die wailing attack that takes no ammo).

[SurvivalistMerc]

I am also very intrigued by this thread.

It might help balance the races a bit more. I would like to see the morale checks modified by the likelihood that the unit would take significant damage from the attack...so for instance black plate infantry of Ulm would not fear a spear just due to its length if it would only rarely cause them harm but would fear it if it were weilded by a giant or someone or something that appeared to have great strength. The nation that I see coming out on the losing end of a change in this area which is not well thought-out would be Ulm, which has low-morale infantry, no priests (unless IF theme is used) able to improve morale, and units that can barely be hurt by most other nations' standard infantries.

I would also hope that these morale "failures" would merely result in a failure to attack that particular target that round and not count for "routing" purposes. Unless they already do and that is what the devs intend.

If a new system is implemented, I would think it would be important to re-evaluate all the units in the light of the new system for both balance and "realism." For instance, a giant weilding a spear is probably using a giant-sized spear, and it may be that a normal giant axe or sword would be longer than a regular human spear. This would apply to all supercombatant units of large size. As things stand now, the size of a weapon is independent of the weilder. Perhaps this could be done by adding in a "reach" attribute to account for the inability of a regular infantryman to poke at anything other than the giant's well-armored arm as the giant reaches to slash the infantryman with a sword.

I see all sorts of complexities here. But complexity is one of the things that makes Dominions great.

[Teraswaerto]

Jotun giants have their own weapons. A Jotun spear is length 5, for example. Magical weapons don't scale to wielder size though, nor would it make much sense, since the gem cost is always the same and a Hoburg can wield the the same weapon as a Niefel Jarl.

[Saber Cherry]

The way I modelled it in the simulator, which I'm pretty sure corresponds to the game, is like this:

A unit with a short weapon attacks a unit with a longer weapon. The following stuff happens, in this order:

ATTACK

If the weapon requires ammo (like a lance) and is out of ammo, the attack ends.

If the enemy has awe and the attacker fails the awe roll, the attack ends.

The enemy makes a repel attempt, and if successful, the attack ends.

If the attacker is no longer alive or awake after the repel attempt, the attack ends (repel attempts can kill or knock out the opponent with fatigue).

Now, the attacker gets to actually attack:

Ammo is reduced by 1 for weapons that use ammo.

The weapon gets one strike at the enemy per "hit". In other words, a flail has 2 hits and gets 2 strikes, but is only affected by 1 repel attempt.

Each strike, successful or not, lowers the enemy defense by 1 for the rest of the round.

REPEL ATTEMPT

The enemy attempts to repel with its longest weapon. This weapon cannot be ranged and cannot use ammo (like a lance), and it must be longer than the attacker's current weapon.

The enemy makes an attack roll versus the attacker's defense. If this fails, the repel attempt ends.

The attacker makes a morale save. If he fails, the repel attempt ends successfuly - the attacker loses his attack.

Otherwise, the attacker attacks anyway. So the enemy takes a strike at the attacker, calculated using the strike routine (a new attack and defense roll), but physical damage is capped at 1. A multi-hit weapon like a flail used in a repel only gets 1 hit.

Note that repel attempt strikes do not cause a defense loss like normal attacks do.

STRIKE

Attacker's attack roll minus enemy's defense roll must be greater than 0, or the attack fails.

If the enemy is ethereal, the attacker must pass an ethereality roll (25% chance, unless he is using a magic weapon) or the attack fails.

If the enemy is lucky, the attacker must pass a luck roll (50%).

In this case, the attacker gets to do damage, equal to the damage roll minus the enemy's protection roll. HOWEVER... if this is a repel strike, the maximum damage is 1.

If the damage is 1 or greater, the attack was a success, and additional damage (paralyze, poison, and fatigue) are added.


....

....

....so, does all that make sense? As far as I can tell, repel attempts can only do 1 physical damage, but they can still do the full poison, fatigue, paralyze, soul-slay, or whatever else kind of damage. So I like to use long, poisoned weapons=) And repel attempts are affected by luck, etheriality, armor-piercing, and attack rating (high attack = better repel chance). A high damage or armor-piercing or magic weapon will typically be more likely to do damage in a repel attempt... but the damage will still be capped at 1 unless the weapon has special effects.

[ December 30, 2003, 20:36: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[SurvivalistMerc]

Teraswearto,

I agree that magical weapons don't scale to size...but reach is affected by size.

Does the typical repel attempt try to hit the attacker in the hand? Or to injure the attacker at other locations, such as where the armor might be weakest?

I would contend that a giant weilding the same weapon should be able to deal with repel attempts better than a shorter creature due to his better reach. And I have never finished a game as Jotunheim. They aren't my favorite nation, and I'm not exactly biased in their favor.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
I would contend that a giant (wielding) the same weapon should be able to deal with repel attempts better than a shorter creature due to his better reach.

Hmmm... yessss... a bonus to weapon length based on unit size would make sense. A Jotun with a dagger should be able to repel a Hoburger with a dagger, for example. Except that he'd have to bend over a bit