second class super combattants

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
I think the automatic damage per hit is a bad idea

Indeed. That would make all low def/low hp (eg, Ulm Guardians) useless.

[Sammual]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I have to admit to being a bit lost regarding some of the early game SC concerns due to lack of details.

I've experimented with a Niefelheim SC Bless race (see Niefelheimn thread) with the Earth mother Earth 9, nature 9 and my experiances don't fit the picture being painted. My blessed, sacred Niefel Giants die with great ease fighting any troops capable of dealing out alot of damage. Remember they have prot +4, berserk 3, regeneration and reinvigoration - yet they get slaughtered by Knights! The Earth Mother is very vunerable without magic items - slowing down her usage and making her researching ability tempting.

My Niefel Giants with Water 9 / Nature 9 Blessings go down alot as well. Worse I have the hardest time keeping my Pretender and my Prophet from going blind.

I am not saying that they are not effective because they are. I just lose them almost as fast as I make them. I trade them for new provences and winning battles.

Sammual

[LordArioch]

If SC pretenders are as powerful as is claimed, could somebody give an example of a setup for their SC pretender? I can't seem to get one that can beat indys safely and reliably on any setting higher than 3.

[Pocus]

when we are speaking of super combattant pretenders, we are not speaking of naked pretenders you know. A single medallion of luck can be the difference between life and death.

[apoger]

>If SC pretenders are as powerful as is claimed, could somebody give an example of a setup for their SC pretender? I can't seem to get one that can beat indys safely and reliably on any setting higher than 3.

I offered this advice a few days ago, but it gets buried fast.

For a simple way to learn try;

A Manticore
astral - 6
earth - 1

Research alteration - 3, enchantment - 3

Place the Manticore in the rear.
Orders to cast: Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Ironskin, Personal Luck, Astral Weapon.
Then attack rearmost.

Send it in alone, you don't want to rout when your army loses a morale check.

Get it rings that protect versus elements if you are attacking a cold or heat nation. Get a ring of tamed lightning if attacking an air nation.

This simple configuration will cut through 95% of conventional armies like a hot knife through butter. Use it to gobble up provinces and abuse the computer AI.

It's not invincible. But will handle a whole lot of trouble.

This will put you on the path towards understanding the potency of super combatants.

[LordArioch]

I decided to quickly throw together such a pretender with the magic levels and just run him around blindly seeing how many str 5 independent provinces he could capture. I think I got maybe 10 before he died.
The problem with that particular setup as with most SC I've made is the fatigue. Some spell that targets a unit and makes a chest wound would be really effective against pretenders without enc 0.
My manticore picked up a chest wound and that took him out. Still, I think I see that the key elements of the design are from the astral magic.
(Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Personal Luck)
This same astral magic leaves him somewhat exposed to mind duels.
Also attack rearmost, in my experience, is probably inferior to attack archers if you suspect your opponent has archers. Attacking the rear of the enemy melee troops isn't usually as good as hitting the archers who might very well be near the mages.

But I'm not an expert so feel free to point out where I'm wrong.

[ November 03, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: LordArioch ]

[Pocus]

just tried a Natajara with air and water magic. At turn 5 she got 4 enchanted swords.
Starting spells : quickness, then air shield & mist form on second round.
Gave her a juicy 28 def, with air shield to protect her from missiles, and mist form if a very very lucky blow bypass the defence.

Nothing else, but a ring of regen, a medallion of luck (or a ring of reinvigoration), and a nice little armor would have been cool.

I had big fun with her. A dozen indeps provinces, then a Tien Chi army of 70 units were trashed without problems.
and this is far from being optimized.

my scales were restless worhshipers, to help spread the dominions (and my Nata hit points...), chaos 1, luck 3, growth 2, dominions 7, fortress (so no loosy empire you see).

SC pretenders are powerful, and even more in doms II (less gold to coutner them with mages eg). Shall we make house rules in multiplay so that some players dont ruins the fun of others? I dont think so, as it would be a pity to have a game just released which cant be balanced from the start. This is why I advocate too that something must be done by the devs.

[ November 03, 2003, 20:55: Message edited by: Pocus ]