An AI question for a Dev

Zerger · #1 November 6th, 2003, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by von_Schmidt:

quote:
Originally posted by DominionsFAN:
licker you think that the devs will care about the AI at all? I tend to think, that they are totally ignoring this topic.

How about you stop your incessant complaining about that?

One of the Devs has stated they are reading the threads and *are* looking for specific complaints and specific suggestions about how to improve the AI. So it is actually in their mind.

If you want to get an improved AI, you might want to offer some constructive insights instead of *demanding* replies.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

von Schmidt

Actually there are lot of suggestions about the AI, and those suggestions ARE all good. All of those are about valid AI problems.
I can understand if DFan is pissed, the devs made like 1 comment in that huge thread.

von_Schmidt · #2 November 5th, 2003, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zerger:

quote:
Originally posted by von_Schmidt:

quote:
Originally posted by DominionsFAN:
licker you think that the devs will care about the AI at all? I tend to think, that they are totally ignoring this topic.

How about you stop your incessant complaining about that?

One of the Devs has stated they are reading the threads and *are* looking for specific complaints and specific suggestions about how to improve the AI. So it is actually in their mind.

If you want to get an improved AI, you might want to offer some constructive insights instead of *demanding* replies.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

von Schmidt
Actually there are lot of suggestions about the AI, and those suggestions ARE all good. All of those are about valid AI problems.
I can understand if DFan is pissed, the devs made like 1 comment in that huge thread.

What annoys me about DFan is:

1. His attitude: as if he has already bought and played the game, but there is a show-stopping bug which is completely ignored by the devs. Which is not the case.

2. Attitude2: as if the devs have a contractual obligation to actually react to each suggestion with indepth analysis.
Give them some time to think and collect several ideas!

3. Posting habits: in how many threads has he now reiterated that the devs seem to ignore the AI?

4. Tone: that of a child demanding attention RIGHT NOW.

I do agree that the AI issues and suggestions seem to be quite valid. But cut the devs some slack; that's all I'm saying.
Especially since they seem quite reachable, open to suggestions and willing to make changes - defintely compared to 95% of the other game devs/companies out there.

Cheers,

von Schmidt

Particle · #3 November 5th, 2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by von_Schmidt:
I do agree that the AI issues and suggestions seem to be quite valid. But cut the devs some slack; that's all I'm saying.

Indeed. I agree with this.

licker · #4 November 5th, 2003, 05:00 PM

Children children...

Thanks for the post Kris, I hope that you are able to figure out some way to externalize some parameters without having to do too much new work.

Anyway, the seed has now been planted, and maybe taken root in your mind, so for the next project perhaps you'll look in this direction. I think its a good direction to move in as it allows you to pull in the resources of the fan base for getting better settings. And the best thing is that at some point you can use different settings to actually make Easy, Normal, Difficult, Impossible, actually have more differences than just more or fewer resources for the computer players

Gandalf Parker · #5 November 5th, 2003, 06:48 PM

I have taken a hand in externalizing AI. In a MUD game (which is a freely available option Id highly recomend to anyone interested) but the particulars would be much the same. I love games that provide it and do believe it would do much toward increasing the lifespan of this game. Im not sure how likely it would be to add it though.

The first thing needed would be recognizable tags for everything the AI would "see" and do. If those are not already in the game (which I dont know) then there would be ALOT of programming to put them in. If we pick one of the AI suggestions we could discuss it further as far as what info would have to be made avaiable, what actions would have to be made available, etc.

licker · #6 November 5th, 2003, 07:01 PM

Ok, lets pick 'army composition' as the element to externalize. Lets ignore commanders and summons for now, focus just on balances with recruitable units.

First lets assume that the AI has a composite picture of its current nation every turn, that would be tresury, income, upkeep, resources (gotta break this one up a bit to capital, forts, and other) and existing army composition.

Now the AI would have to have some default setting (this is the externalized part) that defines what ratio of different unit types it should strive for. This is further complicated by how many armies the AI will have, but lets just look at the national picture and worry about creating the armies later.

So you would have a weighted list of unit types (could be all units in the game, but that seems like overkill).

So to do this in a simple way...

Militia
LI
LI-ranged
MI
MI-ranged
HI
HI-ranged
Archers (short, long, comp, xbow)
LC
LC-ranged
HC
HC-ranged (does that even exist?)
Flyers (perhaps light and heavy? how many differnet flyers are there outside of caelum)

Aquatics would have a different list, but lets stick to the land for the time being.

So from the above list of units types a check is made to see if the nation even has the posibility to recruit the unit type, followd by the amount of available resources to spend on each unit type. Then some algorythem dependant on other settings (national preferences, AI personalities, counter needs, ...) is applied and the existing %s are modified to new values (or left unchanged as needed). Finally, units are ordered to fit the new %s.

That's how I'd probably approach army compostion anyway. Realize this is only part of the overall package, the location of the units recruitment and the recruitment of commanders would also have to be factored in somehow, but that should happen in another matrix I think, though the matricies should be tied together through the controling algorythem(s) that affect them.

Gandalf Parker · #7 November 5th, 2003, 10:47 PM

Not bad. Not bad at all. You went a different direction than I thought you would. I must admit that I expected to do alot of "AH HA! but look at this" Posts but you cut me off.

So rather than a full scripting language with if-this then-this triggers and responses, you are looking more for external variables? Allowing the game to do the recognition and math?

OK for troops that can work. And although I can see alot of "the AI did a stupid thing" it might also provide some intelligent moves. So how would you set the parameters for Ulm?