c'tis themes

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by apoger:
My thoughts;

Miasma:
Costs 50

Costs 10.

Requires minimum heat +2
The heat +2 puts C'tis at -%5 as it is not their prefered temerature.

4% actually (you start with a dominion of 1). Recruit a LK in turn 1, have him preach immediately. Once your dominion strength reaches 5, you're even. After that, it's free bonus. You can of course do the same in every rich province you control once heat reaches +2, if your dominion is low there.

And remember you're not alone in this game, and most other players will have a preferred heat/cold scale which is neutral or opposite to yours. These influences will work against you, therefore heat+2 might actually be better than heat+1 for your econ.

Sauromancer replaced by Marshmaster (-1 death, +1 water, +40 gold cost).

You forgot +1 nature. 6 magic levels instead of 5. You wanted that for free? Similar in cost to a Crone or a Norna, at least as good as them, and recruitable everywhere.

Raises taxes by 1% per level of dominion, but requires at least dominion 6 to start seeing benefits due to the extra heat.

Might be an issue for the first 2-3 turns.

Miasma requires a high dominion strength to be effective, and as such has the hidden cost of that extra dominion.

It's even effective with a low dominion.

I like the idea of +5% taxes with a 10 dominion.
I don't like the Marshmaster, or the attention that the dominion will draw in multiplayer. It's a close call, but I'll probably pass on Misama.

I like the Marshmaster, I doubt the dominion will draw that much attention in MP (unless you play your dominion very aggressively), and I wouldn't pass on Miasma. Its only drawback in my view (and you made no mention of it) is it will make the recruiting of independent troops, and especially independent mages, an hazardous affair.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:

quote:

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Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Miasma seems actually very interesting with a strong dominion. Now the interesting question is: does the diseasing effect also apply to your non-cold blooded pretender?

I wondered this myself, but I've only used undead or CBed pretenders... Its annoying as well that indie priests and mages are a bit more of a risk, though there must be ways to protect them from disease.

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I remember that in Doms 1 poison resisance offered protection against some forms of disease. Something else to check.

I'm not sure about this, but I think with seasons the effects of the extra heat scale arn't as bad as they would be otherwise, though it depends on how much the seasons are effecting the temperature scales.

I don't doubt it will be actually better in most cases. Imagine a situation in which you start surrounded by Caelum, Jotunheim and Vanheim...

Also miasma decreases taxes outside of your boarders by a decent amount (if I remember correctly) where you have domain, and the fact that you will take heat 2 and death 2

Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.

means that you will further complicate enemies taxes where you can get a domain advantage, if you are able to do it right you will really create problems for your neighbors, which of course will create problems for you in MP... I dunno, it will be interesting to see how it works in practicality.

I doubt that will be a problem for your neighbours. Unless they're tempted to grab your own provinces, ofc. It's not that hard to keep an adverse dominion at bay on a peaceful border.

Also you can seemingly use sloth at a high level since you don't have alot of resource hungry units (if you go with serpents and summons) so you can further crud up border provinces... seems Miasma is could be very effective for domain pushing since it adds more negatives to your neighbors.

You could use sloth, I wouldn't myself. The sacred serpents are useful only for their standard effect, they don't warrant uberbless magic. With Miasma, I'd prefer to invest in good scales, and a hard-to-storm castle before anything else.

[licker]

Hmm, question on who is immune to disease...

I have some wights, and they are diseased...

Is there some kind of list of immune units? I was assuming (well hoping I guess) that all undead would be immune, but maybe they need lifeless to be immune, none of my lifeless undead have contracted disease (so far...).

quote:
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Also miasma decreases taxes outside of your boarders by a decent amount (if I remember correctly) where you have domain, and the fact that you will take heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
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Isn't that what I said?

>>

quote:
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means that you will further complicate enemies taxes where you can get a domain advantage, if you are able to do it right you will really create problems for your neighbors, which of course will create problems for you in MP... I dunno, it will be interesting to see how it works in practicality.
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I doubt that will be a problem for your neighbours. Unless they're tempted to grab your own provinces, ofc. It's not that hard to keep an adverse dominion at bay on a peaceful border.
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True the tax bit is probably not going to be an issue, but if you can spread your dominion into the border provs they will have a hard time garisoning them. On a peaceful border they may not care, but that only makes it easier for the land grabbing backstab

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:

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heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
>>
Isn't that what I said?

Didn't you say "heat 2 AND death 2". I mean, death +2 isn't a requirement for Miasma.

[licker]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by licker:

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heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
>>
Isn't that what I said?

Didn't you say "heat 2 AND death 2". I mean, death +2 isn't a requirement for Miasma.

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Ok, yes death is not required for Miasma, I think I had said elsewhere that you might as well take it though, since it doesn't hurt Miasma that much, and Miasma should benefit from more negative scales if you want to try to push domain on your neighbors. If you don't want to push domain, I don't think Miasma is being used to its fullest.

Anyway, some more testing on Miasma Last night (at least until my wife told me turn off the computer ) and I noticed some bugs so I'll point them out.

The Naga pretender (who is a good fit for Miasma) says its 20 points per new path, but on the magic selection screen it says 30, and it charges you 30. The Golden Naga (who is identical except for 2 fire rather than 2 nature) also says 20 and charges 20.

As I mentioned earlier undead do not seem to be immune to disease, though it says in the pop up for undead that they are. I had ghosts and wights both get diseased, though there seemed to be no ill effects from it (i.e. they weren't losing HP and they weren't getting new afflictions).

Anyway, I've been having fun with Miasma, though with the turn limit in the demo it's hard to tell how much on an effect its having on the AI armies. Well that and I've not been able to get enough of an income setup to put up temples to boost domain much while trying to keep recruiting enough mages to fuel research and summons.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Miasma seems actually very interesting with a strong dominion. Now the interesting question is: does the diseasing effect also apply to your non-cold blooded pretender?

OK, tested, with a 100% poison resistant Scorpion King. This didn't prevent him to get diseased as soon as turn #2.

Fastest testbed I ever had.

[HJ]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
OK, tested, with a 100% poison resistant Scorpion King. This didn't prevent him to get diseased as soon as turn #2.

Fastest testbed I ever had.

Did he continue to lose HP etc., or was it the same thing as with undead getting the disease?

[ November 07, 2003, 00:45: Message edited by: HJ ]