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[licker]

Hmm, question on who is immune to disease...

I have some wights, and they are diseased...

Is there some kind of list of immune units? I was assuming (well hoping I guess) that all undead would be immune, but maybe they need lifeless to be immune, none of my lifeless undead have contracted disease (so far...).

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Also miasma decreases taxes outside of your boarders by a decent amount (if I remember correctly) where you have domain, and the fact that you will take heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
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Isn't that what I said?

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means that you will further complicate enemies taxes where you can get a domain advantage, if you are able to do it right you will really create problems for your neighbors, which of course will create problems for you in MP... I dunno, it will be interesting to see how it works in practicality.
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I doubt that will be a problem for your neighbours. Unless they're tempted to grab your own provinces, ofc. It's not that hard to keep an adverse dominion at bay on a peaceful border.
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True the tax bit is probably not going to be an issue, but if you can spread your dominion into the border provs they will have a hard time garisoning them. On a peaceful border they may not care, but that only makes it easier for the land grabbing backstab

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:

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heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
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Isn't that what I said?

Didn't you say "heat 2 AND death 2". I mean, death +2 isn't a requirement for Miasma.

[licker]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

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Originally posted by licker:

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heat 2 and death 2
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Err, only heat +2 is required for Miasma.
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Isn't that what I said?

Didn't you say "heat 2 AND death 2". I mean, death +2 isn't a requirement for Miasma.

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Ok, yes death is not required for Miasma, I think I had said elsewhere that you might as well take it though, since it doesn't hurt Miasma that much, and Miasma should benefit from more negative scales if you want to try to push domain on your neighbors. If you don't want to push domain, I don't think Miasma is being used to its fullest.

Anyway, some more testing on Miasma Last night (at least until my wife told me turn off the computer ) and I noticed some bugs so I'll point them out.

The Naga pretender (who is a good fit for Miasma) says its 20 points per new path, but on the magic selection screen it says 30, and it charges you 30. The Golden Naga (who is identical except for 2 fire rather than 2 nature) also says 20 and charges 20.

As I mentioned earlier undead do not seem to be immune to disease, though it says in the pop up for undead that they are. I had ghosts and wights both get diseased, though there seemed to be no ill effects from it (i.e. they weren't losing HP and they weren't getting new afflictions).

Anyway, I've been having fun with Miasma, though with the turn limit in the demo it's hard to tell how much on an effect its having on the AI armies. Well that and I've not been able to get enough of an income setup to put up temples to boost domain much while trying to keep recruiting enough mages to fuel research and summons.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Miasma seems actually very interesting with a strong dominion. Now the interesting question is: does the diseasing effect also apply to your non-cold blooded pretender?

OK, tested, with a 100% poison resistant Scorpion King. This didn't prevent him to get diseased as soon as turn #2.

Fastest testbed I ever had.

[HJ]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
OK, tested, with a 100% poison resistant Scorpion King. This didn't prevent him to get diseased as soon as turn #2.

Fastest testbed I ever had.

Did he continue to lose HP etc., or was it the same thing as with undead getting the disease?

[ November 07, 2003, 00:45: Message edited by: HJ ]

[Humer]

Originally posted by licker:

As I mentioned earlier undead do not seem to be immune to disease, though it says in the pop up for undead that they are. I had ghosts and wights both get diseased, though there seemed to be no ill effects from it (i.e. they weren't losing HP and they weren't getting new afflictions).

This seems to be legacy from Dom 1. Undeads DO get diseased, it just doesn't do anything to them (no hp loss, no additional afflictions...).

I think Miasma-pretender, cold-blooded or not, should NOT get diseased. After all, it's their dominion fer chris' sake! I actually haven't tested so extensively to know for sure...

- Humer

[licker]

Continuing this Miasma discussion I'm wondering what some vets think of a set up like this...

Order +3 Sloth +3 Heat +2 Growth 0 Misfortune +3 Magic +1

Resoning being that you need many resources for Miasma if you use serpents. You'll have enough to field enough Swamp Gaurds and Poison Slingers anyway. You can still use the LI as screeners and their javalin is nice en masse. You do benefit from a decent income though, and with order +3 you might as well take misfortune +3. I didn't see any reason to go for growth or death, though for more points death +1 is doable I think. Magic +1 is to help your Shamen research. I'm thinking you could also go to Heat +3 as the income loss isn't that bad and supply shouldn't be an issue with all the marshmasters and undead you will probably field.

That nets 160 extra points, less 50 for miasma is 110... I think the Dark Citadel is a good choice as it's hard to seige and cheap, though it is expensive and takes 4 turns.

As to the pretender... well you have some choices, even if you limit yourself to undead, nagas, and the lizard king (or whatever he calls himself...) Domain is important though, so taking a pretender with a higher domain is cost effective, I'd not use less than 6 and probably try for 7. Then it's about magic. I'm having a difficult time deciding what good bless effects are for the Serpets. Nature is good at some level for at least the 'zerking, though with 22hp regeneration isn't all that great (though it could be for your pretender, the Naga would use it well). Death 9 is also somewhat lacking since the serpents don't benefit from the life after death, though the fear aura could be useful (but maybe you don't need 9 in death to get some benefit from that). Earth seems popular, but fatigue isn't an issue and it's hard to get earth 9 and anything else since none of the miasma immune pretenders start with earth. Also the serpents have a low protection to begin with, adding 4 to a low number isn't as useful as adding 4 to a high number, unless you can couple in regeneration, which is really costly.

Taking high astral might be interesting though...

The research track comes next... I'd imagine that conjuration should be a priority so you can get your undead army churning, and construction is always useful. If you luck into some early blood marshmasters you could even try to set up some blood (or if you take a blood pretender). Otherwise I don't know, what schools offer the best auxilary spells for nature and death? Oh you can go for quickness too since all the MMs have water...

Heh, that's getting a bit long... oh well, if you read it give me some comments or your thoughts/experiences