c'tis themes

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:
Continuing this Miasma discussion I'm wondering what some vets think of a set up like this...

My personal fave of the moment looks like this:

C'tis/Miasma
Order, Prod, Growth, Misfortune +3
Heat +2
Magic 0
Dominion 7

Mountain Citadel (low admin but impressive defense) or Dark Citadel (better admin but lacks towers) or Fortified City (good for Swamp Guards, but needs to tip one scale down).

PoD Earth 4/Death 4 (earth mainly for Firbolg castles and hammers, and Wind Ride immunity. Also self-protection ofc).

Empoisoner as prophet. Swamp Guards used mainly for conquest. Lizard Warriors mainly for inner defense (because of their higher map speed = can react faster when invaded).

I'm having a difficult time deciding what good bless effects are for the Serpets.

Not a concern for me. I use at most 3/army for their standard effect, having them escort commanders who stay behind troops.

The research track comes next... I'd imagine that conjuration should be a priority so you can get your undead army churning, and construction is always useful.

Enchantment first: Raise undead, Behemoths. Then Alteration: ethereal Behemoths. These are my first targets.

If you luck into some early blood marshmasters you could even try to set up some blood

I think C'tis will be busy enough researching high Conjuration, Enchantment, Alteration and Thaumaturgy (and Construction, like everybody else) to bother with blood magic for a while. Although that might not be true on site-poor maps, where blood is even more important.

[licker]

Thanks for the input. I had not tried with PoD, though I should look at him. I was using a fairly highly magiced pretender for early research boosts, though if I went with more magic scale it would be easier to switch off to the shamen sooner. I may have to revise my blessings goals downward, I just don't see them as that useful to the serpents...

Anyway, what is the cost of making an empoisoner your profit vs. a lizard king? You lose the ability to hit lvl. 5 holy spells, not a big deal I suppose, the difference between 4 and 5 isn't that key. How do you use your empoisoner then? As an assassin?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Pocus:
hill fortress is an hell to assault (big defence to bring down, then narrow passage & 32 arrows when you assault), coupled with miasma disease, (...) Dont take the dark citadel anyway, too costly, and no arrows when assaulted.

Pros & cons, as Mr G. would say. The higher defense of the cheaper citadels may delay the storming by a turn, sometimes two - more diseases in enemy ranks , and most importantly more time for you to gather reinforcements to lift the siege. Although I certainly would think twice before picking a 600+ gp castle without earth magic (either on the pretender or the national mages).

and some city guards should be a good deterrent...

Hmmm, yes. I usually leave the first 10 in the capital, and I recruit more only when I see the enemy coming.

[licker]

I've had a good amount of success recruiting a bunch of LI in the first couple turns and useing them to beat a path through indies (with indies set at 5 or 6). I use the city gaurd then as a wall to keep the indies off the javaliners for a bit. It's been quite effective, though the CG gets chewed up after a few provinces. However, by that time I've got enough swamp gaurds ready to replace them, and then I can hit provinces that have some HI. This is all without using a SC pretender, its just the army. Is it worth sticking an early marsh master in there for some decent site searching?

The bummer is not being able to use indie HI at the start to help speed up the HI build up. Though maybe one can risk it, even though they will get diseased you can always suicide them at a later time, or just stick them in some backwater and let them die off...

Will their disease spread to your other troops? I guess I should test that...

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:
Anyway, what is the cost of making an empoisoner your profit vs. a lizard king? You lose the ability to hit lvl. 5 holy spells, not a big deal I suppose, the difference between 4 and 5 isn't that key. How do you use your empoisoner then? As an assassin?

"Level 5 holy spells" is only Smite. Try smiting with a level 5 prophet someday, and I think you'll realize it's less useful than the lower level spells. OTOH a stealthy prophet can do what your regular priests can't: spread your dominion outside your borders. No, I wouldn't use my prophet as an assassin - just scout and move him along my dominion's limits.

[ November 07, 2003, 17:44: Message edited by: Nagot Gick Fel ]

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by licker:
Is it worth sticking an early marsh master in there for some decent site searching?

Early important leaders - an Empoisoner (if you want one as your prophet), a Lizard King (to lead your first army), an extra commander (as soon as you need him to ferry reinforcements to your army). Other than that, build troops first and recruit mages with what's left in your treasury. When you can afford a Marshmaster instead of a Shaman, buy him and search. When you have 2 sizeable campaigning armies, you can make mages a higher priority than troops. Still, don't save gold for the future, without a very good reason. At least don't in multiplayer.

The bummer is not being able to use indie HI at the start to help speed up the HI build up. Though maybe one can risk it, even though they will get diseased you can always suicide them at a later time, or just stick them in some backwater and let them die off...

I still buy independents with Miasma if I have gold and a use for them. They never Last long enough to die from their diseases anyway - unless they have only 1 hp left after a battle OFC.

Will their disease spread to your other troops?

I don't think so - at least it didn't in Doms 1.

[licker]

So what is a game starting sequence for you then?

Mine had been:
Turn1
1) recruit a MM, and 10 LI
2) research with the pretender
3) defend with the HI commander

Turn2
1a) recruit a shaman and swamp gaurds
1b) or recruit a few swamp gaurds and save cash for a lizard king next turn
2) research with pretender
3) give the 10 LI to the MM, set orders for fire closest
4) set orders for fire closest to the other LI, set orders for attack closest to the CG and commander
5) attack the easiest looking province with the MM and the commander
turn3
1a) recruit shaman and swamp gaurd
1b) recruit lizard king and swamp gaurd/serpents
2) research with pretender and other mage (if 1a)
3) search new province with MM, patrol with other commander
turn4
1a) recruit shaman and save for lizard king
1b) recruit serpents and swamp gaurd
2) prophitize the LK
3) attack another province with the MM and comander (if there is another that makes a good target)
4) reenforce MM and comander army with a shaman and other units
turn5
...

You get the idea... eventually I'd have the LK with a decent number of serpents joining the first army. by turn 10 I'd be able to make 2 armies if needs be, or focus on more difficult provinces. Eventually I'd get enchantment and conjuration where I want and would start summoning...

Room for improvement in my sequence I guess, I hope you'll have some good advice