Random Events and Balance

Nagot Gick Fel · #1 November 6th, 2003, 06:51 PM

Yeah, I posted on the same topic in csipgs yesterday (thread: Luck = pure randomness?). I ran some "luck" tests, most of them with turmoil +3/luck +3, and my conclusion so far is under such conditions the bad and good events balance each other. So instead of lots of "neutral events", why not choose no events at all and get full benefits from order? BTW, so far in my Doms 2 experience order +3/misfortune +3 netted me only 1 event, and it was a good one! While I got destroyed buildings, vampire invasions and huge pop losses in luck +3 provinces (never seen that in Doms 1).

So either luck is broken (doesn't increase the chances for events being "good" enough, if at all) or turmoil increases the chances for events being "bad", thus cancelling luck.

I think I won't play anything but order +3/misfortune +3 in MP until this gets fixed. How sad, I really hoped we'd get more choices wrt dominion scales in Doms 2, but the more I play, the more I feel desillusioned about this.

licker · #2 November 6th, 2003, 06:52 PM

Yes, my intention is not to nerf the luck scales, well it is, but only in the beginning of the game. Some formula like the one proposed by Gandalf could work, though perhaps the provinces+turns number should be effected by the amount of luck scale (and maybe order scale) taken. Thus some one with 0 in both would be protected for longer than someone who took points in either direction of either scale.

johan osterman · #3 November 6th, 2003, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Yeah, I posted on the same topic in csipgs yesterday (thread: Luck = pure randomness?). I ran some "luck" tests, most of them with turmoil +3/luck +3, and my conclusion so far is under such conditions the bad and good events balance each other. So instead of lots of "neutral events", why not choose no events at all and get full benefits from order? BTW, so far in my Doms 2 experience order +3/misfortune +3 netted me only 1 event, and it was a good one! While I got destroyed buildings, vampire invasions and huge pop losses in luck +3 provinces (never seen that in Doms 1).

So either luck is broken (doesn't increase the chances for events being "good" enough, if at all) or turmoil increases the chances for events being "bad", thus cancelling luck.

I think I won't play anything but order +3/misfortune +3 in MP until this gets fixed. How sad, I really hoped we'd get more choices wrt dominion scales in Doms 2, but the more I play, the more I feel desillusioned about this.

Luck scales should tip badluck/goodluck 10% per scale step. So Luck +3 80/20 goodluck/badluck. Turmoil should not affect the goodluck/badluck percentage anymore, just the total frequency of events. There is however certain other factors that impacts on this, most notably other scale settings. If an event is generated in a province where the scales preclude it occuring the event will be discarded and a new generated until a possible event is generated. The 1500gp event is for example only possible in luck 3 provinces, plague exists both as a rare and as a common event, the common event has a death 3 scale as a requirment etc. After a certain number of attempts to generate a viable event the game stops trying. So it might be a possibility that you have stumbled on scale settings that will in effect change the ratio between badluck/goodluck simply because the game doesn't manage to generate events that fits your settings often enough to reflect the ratio suggested when considering the luck scale alone. Also note that events has a tendency to become more powerfull the higher/lower the luckscale.

Nagot Gick Fel · #4 November 6th, 2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Luck scales should tip badluck/goodluck 10% per scale step...

Thanks for all these clarifications Johan. I forgot to mention my nation had turmoil +3, luck +3, the Restless Worshippers theme and a dominion of 10. Every other scale was left at zero. I did this to maximize the benefits of luck, while avoiding the potential pollution from other non-default scales. I set events to common. No AI, the only opposition came from a similar nation that was left idling. I ran 2 full 40 turns games with this nation, and a 3rd attempt stopped after ~20 turns. I also set magic sites to zero (except in the first game when I forgot to remove a #features 100 in the map file I used).

Despite all this I noticed way more unlucky events than I've been used to in Doms 1. The lost temples and labs all happened in my capital. The plagues and vampire invasion happened in luck +3 provinces. Of course I had more good than bad events, but the nature of the latter was more consequential on average. Therefore I'm left with the feeling that luck +3 is less "safe" in Doms 2 than it was in PPP.

Pocus · #5 November 6th, 2003, 10:30 PM

I ran a quick test on Apoger map (10 provinces held), for 10 turns. Got 5 events, 2 were good, 3 were bad (and one was the infamous rain killing 1/4 of pop).

my scales were Order (turmoil) -3, heat 3, growth 3, productivity 3, luck 3, magic 0

Not very convincing this combo turmoil/luck. Further tests are needed, but either we have stroke of bad luck, or something is buggy.

Treebeard · #6 November 6th, 2003, 10:50 PM

I think the bad events should be toned down a bit... perhaps have the intensity of a bad event linked to luck scale of a province, so a flood might kill 1/5 of the population in a unlucky +3 province and only 1/10 in a lucky +3 province.

johan osterman · #7 November 6th, 2003, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
Therefore I'm left with the feeling that luck +3 is less "safe" in Doms 2 than it was in PPP.

It is less safe, with 3 luck and flat turmoil you were totally safe from bad luck in dom 1.

[ November 06, 2003, 20:59: Message edited by: johan osterman ]