So far what nations look strong... and weak?

[apoger]

Looks like the Tien Chi main theme can summon astral and earth, while the Spring & Autum theme summons fire, water, and death.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by ywl:
I used an rainbow mage pretender with level 2 in everything, excpet 4 in astral. Even she can't cast it. Do you have to be a Celestial Master to cast the spell?

My guess is that you are playing the standard theme. Demons of Heavenly rivers is not available to the standard theme. Casting it only requires astral and water 1.

[ November 20, 2003, 00:30: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Keir Maxwell]

All these Tien Chi tidbits are killing me with curiosity. The heavy cavalry sound exciting - what is their Prot? If you put them on hold and attack do they shoot while holding?

Help appreciated,

Keir

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

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Originally posted by ywl:
I used an rainbow mage pretender with level 2 in everything, excpet 4 in astral. Even she can't cast it. Do you have to be a Celestial Master to cast the spell?

My guess is that you are playing the standard theme. Demons of Heavenly rivers is not available to the standard theme. Casting it only requires astral and water 1.

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It's kind of annoying that the "National Spells" section of the spell manual only includes national battlefield spells, and not national ritual spells (Desert Tombs, Ashen Empire, Soul Gates, and apparently several different themes of T'ien Ch'i - maybe Carrion Woods too?).

Anyway, I was able to cast Demon of Heavenly Rivers with my pretender (Jade Emperor - water 4 astral 6, although with what I know now I'd probably go for a rainbow mage next time; T'ien Ch'i needs access to a variety of booster items) in Spring and Autumn.

The Spring and Autumn Celestial Master is amazing - 7 magic levels, level 4 priest and flying for 250 - 2/3 the cost of an archtheurg. The only real weakness is the 1 astral making him a magic duel target against the astral big boys (Pythium, Arco, R'lyeh). And the low path requirements for the celestial summons go great with the CM's broad based magic. (I recommend a pretender that can forge Staff of Elemental Mastery and/or Rings of Sorcery and Wizardry - both CMs and Masters of the Five Elements gain a lot from multi-boosters.)

Oh, and the Gate of Spring and Autumn produces 6 gems a turn. Why should Pythium have all the fun?

Spring and Autumn doesn't have any cheap communion slaves though.

One more oddity with Spring and Autumn: their province defense is still led by Eunuchs, even though they aren't a normally recruitable commander. (I don't know if this sort of thing happens with other special themes too.)

The Celestial Master is Priest level 3 and they Fly 3. They are their own rainbow mages, basically Great search machines; by far one of the best uses for them.

I don't particularly like the fact that their nobles can only command 25 though; frustrating when you are packing around a ton of horses. Also those horses are actually one archer unit that works... well. And the Glaviers are very nice to hold the line.

Their regular armies get worked pretty hard by heavy cav and large numbers of heavy infantry. As the Horsies still shoot badly even with Aim cast on them multiple times. They work really well with low end enchantment spells that Celestial masters and the heroes have access to. Like Protection, Aim, etc. If only they had xbows ...

Though I guess that is what Demon's of heavenly fire are for, just need more fire gems and to summon them in droves!

Required Turmoil 1 is not nice, along with Magic 1.

Edit: Barbarian Kings has Turmoil 2 Requirement. Though they start out with "Spirit Mastery" which calls 15 Dispossesed Spirits for 4 Death Gems. If you can get an early stockpile of them (via Searching) you can have a quick abusive army with their Heavy Horsemen and Glavie Users.

[ November 20, 2003, 08:12: Message edited by: Zen ]

I can only say this about R'lyeh ... ug.

They are fairly one dimensional. But ... ug. They are definitely upper end.

One more time for the children ... ug.

[ywl]

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ywl:
I used an rainbow mage pretender with level 2 in everything, excpet 4 in astral. Even she can't cast it. Do you have to be a Celestial Master to cast the spell?

My guess is that you are playing the standard theme. Demons of Heavenly rivers is not available to the standard theme. Casting it only requires astral and water 1.

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Yes. Much to my embarassment, I found it out myself Last night too. Spring & Autumn and the default themes feel like two very different nations to me.