So far what nations look strong... and weak?

Teleolurian · #1 November 24th, 2003, 12:59 AM

I'd like to propose a different solution to mind hunt (or whatever it's called). Too many interesting Dom1 Posts had a long segue of 'I'd do it, but the vulnerability to mind hunt sucks'.

How about a Construction 6, Astral 3 Helmet with:

Protection: 2
Defense: -1
Immunity to mind hunt/(magic duel?) and feeblemind.

Restricting use of astral doesn't sound very good to me, since the reason I have these mages on the field is in order to use things like Star Fires. The immunity to feeblemind (and therefore the dreaded Black Bow) increases the usefulness. Of course, something like this should have a moderately high gem cost to counteract this gross specific protection... it should at least be more expensive than the bow is.

#2 November 24th, 2003, 01:24 AM

Perhaps the effect of Mind Duel should be lessened. Instead of death or permanant affliction. (This is just the mind duel spell; not mind hunt)

If a mage is the subject of a Mind Duel and loses; he is then affected by a powerful paralyze as his mind is overwhelmed but does not die; unless they are overrun. It doesn't cause Morale Failure or Routing behavior but any positives are no longer counted (Standard, etc).

That would make the mages useful and not a throw away of economy. Or you could make Mind Duel take longer to effect.

I think providing a total immunity would hurt those who invest a marked amount of points into Astral. If you look at the astral selection spells are useful; but nothing truly powerful. Even Stellar Cascades (which is one of the best and most widely used spells if you happen to be a Communion Friendly race and even very valuable if you are not) is strong but not overpowering.

The thorn of mind duel should NOT affect race/pretender construction by avoiding it completely but how to deal with it. Perhaps the answer is to give those with base astral some easy access to Communion or units that allow easier communion.

[ November 23, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: Zen ]

Joonie73 · #3 November 24th, 2003, 01:36 AM

I still have never seen a magic duel. Does AI ever do it on its own? Do I have to script my astral mages to do it?

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
...

Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game? This is perhaps the question that needs to be asked.

I do. I think it's interesting. On the other hand, I understand the objections, and think it'll be good if/when it's a spell that like all others, can be easily modded out of the game if players prefer it not be there.

PvK

Jasper · #4 November 24th, 2003, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game? This is perhaps the question that needs to be asked.

I like Magic Duel, despite the limitations on Pretender design it induces. It's a decent limitation on Astral magic, which IMHO is brutally powerfull without it -- it's strong enough as it currently stands. I also like it's flavor, and the way it differentiates Astral from other paths.

Astral magic has some of the most powerfull Evocations, Alterations, and Thaumaturgy.
Star Fires, Stellar Cascades, Ethereal, Luck, Astral Weapon, Astral Shield, Teleport, Gateway, Soul Slay, Mind Hunt. It's got a bunch of good spells that also require other paths too. It's argueably the most powerfull path, despite Gateway and Star Fires being weakened.

My only problem with Magic Duel is that I think it should do 200 fatigue damage rather than kill the loser(s).

#5 November 24th, 2003, 01:38 AM

I have never seen the AI initiate a Magic Duel and yes you do have to script it. Or cast a Mind Hunt.

Kaljamaha · #6 November 24th, 2003, 01:45 AM

I've had the AI use Magic Duel against me, quite successfully even. For the whole story, check my post in the "Dominions 2. AI. Suggestions, that how to fix it." thread, currently on page two.

K.

Keir Maxwell · #7 November 24th, 2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game?

I like Magic Duel,
. . .
My only problem with Magic Duel is that I think it should do 200 fatigue damage rather than kill the loser(s).

Thats a big difference Jasper. If that was what Mind Duel did my objections would decline.

As another poster put - all those discussions on dom1 races that ended with "I would play it except for the vunerability to mind duel." That sentence summerises Marignon race discussions in Dom1.

I love designing and honing races. Doing so for me is closely tied with questions like - does it work in MP? Though I play only a fraction of my designs in MP that is what they exist in relation to. Mind Duel is a killer on Multi-player options. MP needs lots of options or it becomes a bit stale over time what with all the analysis and play that goes on.

And that is why I dislike Mind Duel so much in its current form.

The good news is that banning Mind Duel from use seems to work fine.

Does banning Mind Duel make Astral too powerful - dunno.

Cheers

Keir

ps. I tend to agree with Jasper that Astral remains one of the most powerful branches of magic.