So far what nations look strong... and weak?

[HJ]

The question was not directed at me, but I was thinking about the "fire and attack" order. We now have "fire and flee", "hold and attack", so "fire and attack" where a unit would fire its missile weapon for two or three turns (or two or three times I guess for crossbows) and then switch to attacking seems logical. And useful, not only for Tien Chi, but for friendly fire mishaps as well, for example, when you're facing a weak army and don't need a constant barrage of arrows/bolts.
I'm also thinking about legionnaires, as this was their standard tactic historically. If the enemy is not in range, then the squad would approach that turn, as missiles do in general. But it would suit Tien Chi cavalry even better, as they would cause disorder with their bows first, and then charge the shaken formations with lances. Very effective in theory.

[ November 24, 2003, 07:54: Message edited by: HJ ]

[Humer]

Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game? This is perhaps the question that needs to be asked.

I like mind duel. Astral is said to be the most powerful Arcana (in manual, if I'm not mistaken). There's nothing like having your mages picked up one by one by a superior astral mage. It really makes you think strategy. Really. It pisses me off, but I tend to take it as a learning experience.

Counter-balance-wise other paths have better summons and mass-destruction spells. What astral can do to that end?

Dabble in astral and be ready to pay the price. Master the astral and be one to collect the price.

- Humer

[Wendigo]

Astral is brutal in the end game, easily the most powerful field excluding Blood summons, and it also has some good tricks for early expansion vs inddies. The good thing about astral is its versatility, and the fact that the related ward can only protect to a certain degree.
I would be willing to prove the point vs anyone that thinks otherwise.

Concur with most of Jasper's points. I like having Magic duel in the game (and this from a player that has spent quite some time playing a 2nd tier astral nation), tho the effects from a lost duel are open to debate & suggestions.

I cannot see how some players claim that 'banning Magic Duel increases options', IMO it does the opposite: every single SC pretender will be designed with some astral proficiency because it gives both mobility & the *best* combat booster spells. It's the best magic to have on a SC with the risk removed, and gives Mind Hunt immunity as a bonus.

[ November 24, 2003, 09:34: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

[PDF]

Originally posted by Teleolurian:
I'd like to propose a different solution to mind hunt (or whatever it's called). Too many interesting Dom1 Posts had a long segue of 'I'd do it, but the vulnerability to mind hunt sucks'.

How about a Construction 6, Astral 3 Helmet with:

Protection: 2
Defense: -1
Immunity to mind hunt/(magic duel?) and feeblemind.

Restricting use of astral doesn't sound very good to me, since the reason I have these mages on the field is in order to use things like Star Fires. The immunity to feeblemind (and therefore the dreaded Black Bow) increases the usefulness. Of course, something like this should have a moderately high gem cost to counteract this gross specific protection... it should at least be more expensive than the bow is.

Won't it be even simpler to add a "Mind Blank" spell (Enchantment 4 (?)- Astral 1 or 2) that will have the same effect ?
So we would have a magic counter to a magic threat, like Fireballs has Fire Resist, etc...

[Humer]

Originally posted by PDF:
Won't it be even simpler to add a "Mind Blank" spell (Enchantment 4 (?)- Astral 1 or 2) that will have the same effect ?
So we would have a magic counter to a magic threat, like Fireballs has Fire Resist, etc...

Better yet, make the "Mind Blank"-spell cause feeblemindness of battle duration: "No magic duel... durrrr...*drools* "

- Humer

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Humer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game? This is perhaps the question that needs to be asked.

I like mind duel. Astral is said to be the most powerful Arcana (in manual, if I'm not mistaken). There's nothing like having your mages picked up one by one by a superior astral mage. It really makes you think strategy. Really. It pisses me off, but I tend to take it as a learning experience.

Counter-balance-wise other paths have better summons and mass-destruction spells. What astral can do to that end?

---

Don't underestimate the Angelic Host.

But the main problem is not that astral isn't useful to mages that have it: it's that it's too dangerous to mages that have it, especially if they represent a large fraction of a country's magical power.

Dabble in astral and be ready to pay the price. Master the astral and be one to collect the price.

That works fine if you have a choice. Marignon and T'ien Ch'i don't.

I don't have any problem with the loser of a Magic Duel dying: what I have a problem with is the winner walking away completely free.

I think that any time a magic duel occurs, there should be a chance that the astral energies used during the duel will attract the attention of horrors. This results in a chance of the winner becoming horror marked (or the strength of his horror mark increasing, if he is already horror marked and they come in variable strengths), and a chance of a horror materializing in the vicinity of the winner. Both effects should rise with the sum of the combatants' astral levels (so a duel between two Astral-9 gods will almost certainly horror mark the winner and is likely to attract a Doom Horror; in the case of the horror attracting effect, both the chance of attracting a horror and the strength of horror attracted should rise with the power of the combatants).

This still doesn't save Celestial Masters or Grand Masters from being harassed by packs of lizard shamans, astral sages or crystal priestesses, but it does save them from being gunned down by the dozen by a single archtheurg, astrologer or starspawn (or at least make it risky for the professional duelist).

A chance for the winner to be feebleminded (and a large chance that he takes 100+ fatigue damage - one duel per caster per battle unless you have strong reinvig) would help too, but not be nearly as cool. Although the feeblemind part does recall the old saying about knife fights - the winner is the one who goes to the hospital (or in this case, mental hospital).


I'd kind of like to see a Helm of Mind Shielding - protects against Magic Duel and everything else that doesn't affect mindless units - but it wouldn't really solve the magic duel problems, IMO. You can't practically equip every commander with them.

[SurvivalistMerc]

Chris,

I actually don't like your horror mark suggestion. It would allow a weak astral being such as one of the Ry'leh assassins to cause a horror mark on a Pretender much more powerful in astral than the assassin. I don't see this as remotely desirable.

Horror marks on sages or shamen...bah...what's the use?

I usually have astral 3 or so on my pretender. I just keep him out of combat.

As an aside, does anyone have a chart of the relative chances of winning/losing an astral duel given given powers vying for success?

Astral 1 vs Astral 3?

Astral 2 vs. 3?
Astral 1 vs. 4?

I'm curious as to how this generally plays out.