C'tis and the Dancers of Death

[Truper]

Any nation with a starting Death gem income can get around drain scales for research purposes through the use of Skull Mentors. They rock!

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by PhilD:
OK, it's official, I suck at this game.

I tried copying the exact same setup, and at turn 12, I am now the proud owner of 14 Provinces, with a monthly income of 550 Gold. I am ahead in Provinces and in Income (barely; Arcoscephale is just behind), but my research is way behind everybody else's (I found 2 Libraries for Sages two turns ago, but don't have the cash for Labs).

That is not actually far from my results and perhaps with a few adjustments in play would be roughly the same. At the start you need to quickly develop a plan for the terrioroy you wish to take not just take whats available. You want the shortest land borders possible and to border as few AI's as possible. Its important to leave the AI with expansion routes early (hopefully straight into monster indies) and to make sure you raise defenses on border provinces to ~11 to discourage the AI from attacking. When tensions are high/peace is important a dross army stationed on the border can be enought to discourage the AI.

Play a bit with the exact positioning of your Groups vs different indies to reduce casualities. Minor deployment differences can make a big difference and nailing the start is well worth it.

Oh, and some of my Sauromancers are rebels; they keep casting Raise Dead instead of the Terrors they've been instructed.

I didn't have much magic by t.12 - just what the Prince got me as Sauromancers are needed at the front, to keep casualties down, or for searching. Being behind in research in this period is generally fine.

Tis a pain how often scripts are overridden. I find it very annoying that Sauromancers with 1 water are not much use as they use their quickness to cast a bunch of stupid spells instead of terrorizing opponnents. I think mages should have a strong bias towards casting the Last spell they were scripted to cast.

To HJ:

Slinger are good but I'm focusing on troops to attract archery and Dancers early. Later Slingers will come into their own.

I have thought about Air but to be honest find the thought of high Astral more appealing for Twist of Fate plus extra magic resist. At this point Air is low on my list of bless effects especially as I can usually trick archers into shooting at the wrong target.

I haven't tried high fire yet Patrik as most of the sacred troops I'm looking at have a good attack but need the extra defensive bonuses to make them almost unkillable when used carefully. Machakan Black Hunters have good enough stats already to look at high fire but a I feel Machaka needs decent dominon scales so I have been cautious so far.

A side point which I haven't posted on this group - try using the Lord of the Desert Sun to cast Eagle Eyes then Fireball. The results are impressive - Nature plus Fire 2 or more is pretty handy.

cheers

Keir

[ November 19, 2003, 19:52: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[HJ]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I've had trouble with that sort of thing too. The worst is Fanatacism, which only gets cast when my prophet wants to, regardless of being scripted. And often my stupid prophet casts Sermon of Courage instead. I mean, come on!!! A 4-holy unit should NEVER EVER cast Sermon of Courage.

They tend not to cast fanaticism if all troops pass the morale check. At least that's how I interpret it, but who knows, maybe I'm giving more credit to the Ai than is due. However, it is possible that fanaticism isn't necessary, even though you took casualties and/or damage, if nobody fails the morale check, especially if LK are quickened and cast it twice. On the other hand, how will holy avenger help is beyond me...

Play a bit with the exact positioning of your Groups vs different indies to reduce casualities. Minor deployment differences can make a big difference and nailing the start is well worth it.

It's become sort of second habit to do this as I play more and more Dominions; but the reason I looked and this and let my befuddled mind kind of slither around the concept is my main issue with the AI.

The AI always starts out slow. I usually attack on Turn 2-3 with most races gearing to that initial rush to get gold/provinces. The AI is usually 2-5 Provinces behind even on Difficult/Impossible and most of the time I noticed their troop placement is less than optimal when I fight against it.

Does the AI have a script do anything in regards to positioning for Army weaknesses, use decoys (Undead/High Defense/Prot) for different types of archer/xbow. Hold and attack behind lines of mages who cast Mass Animates, etc?

This may belong in the AI thread; but it was presented here and is an AI issue.

[Psitticine]

Fanaticism can only help once some of the units from a squad have failed a morale check already. (It puts them back on an "unfailed" footing.) If that hasn't happened, it is totally useless. That being the case, the AI won't cast it when there's nobody around who can be helped by it.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Zen:
Does the AI have a script do anything in regards to positioning for Army weaknesses, use decoys (Undead/High Defense/Prot) for different types of archer/xbow. Hold and attack behind lines of mages who cast Mass Animates, etc?

When it comes to AI experiances I am not playing the same game as most it would seem - different settings I assume. I play indies 5 lotsa impossible AI's and I see lots of big AI armies. I have suffered the wrath of at least one very well put together army - see Machakan Musings footnote.

The AI is not going to be able to take subtle advantage of differences in matchups - this is too much to ask. What it can do, and when it gets a big army does do sometimes at least, is deploy its troops fundamentally right.

"What is he saying?" you ask "there is no right deployment." There is for alot of situations given the lack of terrain. Top ancients gamers work out how they wish to deploy their army and then adjust for terrain and opponent. No terrain so no major adjustments there and the computer isn't up to adjusting to opponents. So work out the best way to deploy the troops and do it.

Example:

Standard execute violence setup:

Mass of MI/HI on a decent frontage in the middle to the fore attracting attention. A strong center is incredibly important and who better for the job the cheap, tough, slow moving troops?

Archers (not necessary and dangerous for mages) fairly central, behind HI, and close enough so as to be able to shoot early but not get hit by to many stray arows aimed at HI.

HC - Held back on flanks with attack rear orders or attack closest.

Mages etc - Away from anything that can be chosen as a target by archers yet in range to cast their spells.

Flyers - To rear on hold and attack enemy rear.

Reserves - significant bodies of troops, not on archers target priorities list, deployed on top of mages etc on hold and attack to counter enemy break through troops, flankers and flyers.

This is pretty much the AI army of Van mentioned in Machakan Musings and it worked a treat. Not sure they had enough reserves but I didn't have flyers and the Van covered the flanks well enough.

A variation to this is the hold and attack mid board deployment based on lotsa shooties.

If the AI chooses between these two deployments based on an assessment of the capabilities of its troops then that would be fairly challenging - as long as it can get the armies together. If its decision is informed by intelligence as to the relative capability of the enemy army to perform the two central ways of fighting then we would be cooking with gas.

Cheers

Keir

[ November 19, 2003, 22:53: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by PhilD:
OK, it's official, I suck at this game.

To offer a positive (for me) note: I started again, only I put the AIs on Easy. Well, that was my first ever victory (demo only: I've had many games stop at turn 40, but this was my first game with Dominion victory)... About turn 25, after a quick war with Tien'Chi, I noticed that Ermor's dominion was higher than mine, and getting close to the goal, so I started pumping out cheap Priests and building Temples, and moved my armies to attack Ermor and kill some of their Dominion. And by turn 30 or so, I ascended...