Big Problem - Unbalanced random events

alexti · #1 March 29th, 2004, 03:05 AM

I think many underestimate +500 gold event in the early game. You can buy a lot of extra troops or hire couple of mercenary bands. Either way, it's 1 turn bonus to your expansion plan. Comparing to that 1/4 population loss is not that bad. Even it happens in your home province, the impact is not felt immediately and by the time income loss has accumulated (to let's say 500 gold), you already have many other provinces, so probably getting +500 gold and 1/4 population loss in the capital on the same turn is a good event.

Those extra gems events also may be underestimated, if you get right gems it boosts your plans a lot (making important item one turn earlier or summoning one turn earlier). Considering, that these extra gem events are happening quite often, they have significant positive effect.

The really bad event, probably worst I've seen is to lose the lab. Early in the game you lose 200 gold and one turn worth of research. And this even can't happen in unimportant province, because you don't have labs there. Even later in the game when the importance of the random events is much smaller, losing a lab in the research center is quite bad. Again one turn research loss

But if you get really good event (+1500 gold) and loss of lab on the same turn, is it positive or not? I'm not sure, maybe it depends on the nation.

So far, it luck/misfortune seem to be balanced to me, but whether the perfect balance is achieved or not, nobody probably knows.

Mandalore · #2 March 29th, 2004, 05:11 AM

The worst event possible is this.

I was playing Ulm during the demo and on my first turn, an earthquake struck and obliterated my temple. Now normally temple losses arn't really bad, but it was my only temple. Thus I could build no preists to build more temples, and my pretender could not build temples either. My dominion was 3 luck as well so it was simply the luck of the draw I guess. Needless to say I restarted. But by far that is the most crippling event I have had happen early in game.

Thanks

[ March 29, 2004, 03:13: Message edited by: Mandalore ]

Graeme Dice · #3 March 29th, 2004, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mandalore:
Now normally temple losses arn't really bad, but it was my only temple.

You could have appointed your starting commander as the prophet, and had him build your temple.

Mandalore · #4 March 29th, 2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

You could have appointed your starting commander as the prophet, and had him build your temple.

Your right, I could have. I didn't think of that at the time, but if it ever happens again I will remember that.

Thanks!

PrinzMegaherz · #5 March 29th, 2004, 03:43 PM

Another thing to consider is the definition of luck.

If you play ermor, you wont mind population loss events that much. However, getting Militia units that demand upkeep will quickly reduce that 200 gold you saved for a temple to zero. Definitly no luck.

Anyway, everyone complains about those money gain/population loss events. So what would you like? Population gain/loss events or money gain/loss events? Money loss events can easily be avoided by having no money at the end of the turn. On the other hand, Illwinter already said that population gain events are out of the question.

So, what do you propose?

[ March 29, 2004, 13:44: Message edited by: PrinzMegaherz ]

Wyatt Hebert · #6 March 29th, 2004, 09:40 PM

With all respect to the designer (and I'm actually on your side for this one, honestly), I think a real issue involved is simply that if I pay 120 points for Luck3, it is still possible (if not likely) that I will take a 25% Income loss in my capital first turn, which means that my start is slower and, from what I've heard, can be a death knell in MP.

To rephrase, if I'm taking Turmoil 3, I've worked that into my battle/strategic plan. Taking Luck 3 and getting too many negative events early (especially if they are nasty ones) can really skew the battle plan. And, please note, that if I don't spend those points, it is a case that it's more likely to happen.

Just my thoughts.

Wyatt

Cainehill · #7 March 29th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Many players tend to overvalue losses compared to gains (and I would argue that both Mr Cainehill and Mr Montya in this thread are guilty of this), [/QB]

Well, maybe. Turn 10, I lose 40% population (around 9000). Turn 11 - my VQ doesn't attack. Turn 12 - +1500 gold, magic item, and "huge amount of XXX gems".

I admit, that luck event overshadowed the population loss - and my population _still_ doesn't have nails in their shoes.