Please don't take my toys away!

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Zen:
In saying "I would rather have the Old Dom1 scales if you change the ones I use now" is as you stated; selfish. Which is fine, your enjoyment is part of the game, but so is balance.

Er - what? Did I said that? I don't think it - I don't think I said it?

Actually I was being humerous in my first post and trying to put a personal touch on things so that maybe people could empathise - man was I wrong! I don't actually think there is anything selfish in not wanting the game to change in a way that ruins a whole range of options made possible by the existing setup. I'm worried that the changes seeking balence will be horribly unbalencing so I really think you are missing the boat Zen.

As for balence I would suggest that what we are really searching for a dynamic balence built around the many imbalences in the game. The imbalence in order/turmoil combines with other imbalences to create the overall balence of the game which people are proposing to change. Balencing order/turmoil is by no means necessarily a good as it could imbalence the game badly. Not everything should be equal or fair - this is not chess and there is no reason pawns, for example, should have the same value. The skill of race design and play is utilising imbalences to generate more powerful than the norm effects. More like the real world by far than Chess or Go which are almost perfectly balenced. Even if you don't agree in theory you may as well concede in practice as Dominions is too complex for anything else to be true - despite the most dedicated search for perfect balence.

I think you have been unneceserily combatitive on this Zen and I also don't think you have read what I wrote very carefully - either that or I'm just confusing. Assumptions that I'm a typical gamer panicking over my favourite toy being nerfed are unlikely to be right considering Illwinter went to great trouble to invent these favourite toys and I am aware of this fact.

Damn humour gone caused trouble again can't win them all.

cheers

Keir

The game has been out 2 weeks in full Version; how can you come to the conclusion that it is drastically imbalanced when you haven't played it in all it's fullness on those settings enough to know. Theories are all fine and good; but I'd hope you have fact to prove it.

And you may not have said that; I do need to reread things more carefully; I got the wrong idea on what you said. You want to keep the scales now as opposed to the stricter MP balance that was in Dom1. But if Dom2 does anything it shows that they did recognize it and move away from it so I wouldn't think they would step back into the old scale system based on all the new changes. I would hope the faith in the developer to think ahead instead of behind would be prevelent with a company with such a good track record.

If I missed the boat, then I was swimming over here in the sea of irony that has alot of miscommunication of different culture/countries verbal usage and sentance structure.

But I always did like to swim.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Zen:
The game has been out 2 weeks in full Version; how can you come to the conclusion that it is drastically imbalanced when you haven't played it in all it's fullness on those settings enough to know. Theories are all fine and good; but I'd hope you have fact to prove it.

I don't think the game is drastically imbalenced. I'm arguing against the catastrophist approach that the scales need drastic fixing.

And you may not have said that; I do need to reread things more carefully; I got the wrong idea on what you said. You want to keep the scales now as opposed to the stricter MP balance that was in Dom1.

Thats right I perfer the new scales because they free up points for pretenders compared to the old scales to a total of 120-160. In the old days order 3 plus luck 0 or often +1 was the norm. The new norm is order 3 misfotune 3 - but that doesn't mean there arn't variations and hopefully Barbarian Kings will become another good turmoil option.

I see no reason why turmoil should be a good option for classic order races (Arco/Pythium), or even a balenced choice. Some choices suit some races better than others and so it should be.

If I missed the boat, then I was swimming over here in the sea of irony that has alot of miscommunication of different culture/countries verbal usage and sentance structure.

Hey thats cool man. I generally edit out all the juicy/confusing/ironic bits before hitting "add reply" but I do like to think people get a feel for me over time and will cut me some slack to play around with. Trouble when I keep it dry all the time is I can come across like a lecturer so its a hard balence to maintain.

Cheers

Keir

[Jasper]

Just what pretenders are thinking of that absolutely need to take advantage of the broken combination of Order and Misfortune in order to be viable? Perhaps you could provide some sort of concrete example?

As it stands now I'm completely unmoved and unconvinced: Order gives way too much benefit, and Misfortune has virtually no downside when combined with Order.

[SurvivalistMerc]

There is the downside of never getting the national heroes. But I agree with you...that is minor compared to getting rid of most of the catastrophic events.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I see no reason why turmoil should be a good option for classic order races (Arco/Pythium), or even a balenced choice. Some choices suit some races better than others and so it should be.

As it stands now, Turmoil is a bad choice even for Pangaea -- which gets extra benefit out of both Turmoil and Luck.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Jasper:
As it stands now, Turmoil is a bad choice even for Pangaea -- which gets extra benefit out of both Turmoil and Luck.

That's what it seems like. Pangaea has a great patrolling unit in the harpies, but doesn't really even need them as raising taxes can't be done very well.