Please don't take my toys away!

The game has been out 2 weeks in full Version; how can you come to the conclusion that it is drastically imbalanced when you haven't played it in all it's fullness on those settings enough to know. Theories are all fine and good; but I'd hope you have fact to prove it.

And you may not have said that; I do need to reread things more carefully; I got the wrong idea on what you said. You want to keep the scales now as opposed to the stricter MP balance that was in Dom1. But if Dom2 does anything it shows that they did recognize it and move away from it so I wouldn't think they would step back into the old scale system based on all the new changes. I would hope the faith in the developer to think ahead instead of behind would be prevelent with a company with such a good track record.

If I missed the boat, then I was swimming over here in the sea of irony that has alot of miscommunication of different culture/countries verbal usage and sentance structure.

But I always did like to swim.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Zen:
The game has been out 2 weeks in full Version; how can you come to the conclusion that it is drastically imbalanced when you haven't played it in all it's fullness on those settings enough to know. Theories are all fine and good; but I'd hope you have fact to prove it.

I don't think the game is drastically imbalenced. I'm arguing against the catastrophist approach that the scales need drastic fixing.

And you may not have said that; I do need to reread things more carefully; I got the wrong idea on what you said. You want to keep the scales now as opposed to the stricter MP balance that was in Dom1.

Thats right I perfer the new scales because they free up points for pretenders compared to the old scales to a total of 120-160. In the old days order 3 plus luck 0 or often +1 was the norm. The new norm is order 3 misfotune 3 - but that doesn't mean there arn't variations and hopefully Barbarian Kings will become another good turmoil option.

I see no reason why turmoil should be a good option for classic order races (Arco/Pythium), or even a balenced choice. Some choices suit some races better than others and so it should be.

If I missed the boat, then I was swimming over here in the sea of irony that has alot of miscommunication of different culture/countries verbal usage and sentance structure.

Hey thats cool man. I generally edit out all the juicy/confusing/ironic bits before hitting "add reply" but I do like to think people get a feel for me over time and will cut me some slack to play around with. Trouble when I keep it dry all the time is I can come across like a lecturer so its a hard balence to maintain.

Cheers

Keir

[Jasper]

Just what pretenders are thinking of that absolutely need to take advantage of the broken combination of Order and Misfortune in order to be viable? Perhaps you could provide some sort of concrete example?

As it stands now I'm completely unmoved and unconvinced: Order gives way too much benefit, and Misfortune has virtually no downside when combined with Order.

[SurvivalistMerc]

There is the downside of never getting the national heroes. But I agree with you...that is minor compared to getting rid of most of the catastrophic events.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I see no reason why turmoil should be a good option for classic order races (Arco/Pythium), or even a balenced choice. Some choices suit some races better than others and so it should be.

As it stands now, Turmoil is a bad choice even for Pangaea -- which gets extra benefit out of both Turmoil and Luck.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Jasper:
As it stands now, Turmoil is a bad choice even for Pangaea -- which gets extra benefit out of both Turmoil and Luck.

That's what it seems like. Pangaea has a great patrolling unit in the harpies, but doesn't really even need them as raising taxes can't be done very well.

It is mainly the money aspect. Even with 10 Provinces pouring in the gold; you are making so much less than any Order based build you are losing incredible ground on both research and production of units.

I've tried both Pangea and BK, SaA using the Luck 3, Turmoil 3 scale. If the benefits for this scale weighed in the same as Order/Misfortune then there wouldn't be as much as issue.

If you look at the various scales which are adjusted more often than not for yourself.

For Me:

Growth: The "extra". I would take Order first, Production second then Growth in that order, unless for some reason I could get away with Sloth; then I would pump this. Even for blood magic; as the virgin loss of population is negligable for it's benefit. The slow increase over time to money is not as benefitial overall than Production scale. (For me, this is a preference)

Death: Almost never chosen; ever. Only 3 races really can choose them and only two have any benefit and that is Ermor, C'tis (Desert Tomb). Unless you are those type of races, this scale will destroy your economy.

Magic: I rarely take Magic even if I have bad researchers as a race. The vulnerability to magic resistance isn't as much on my mind as the points it costs that could be put elswhere.

Drain: I use this fairly often, to the point if 2 if I pick it at all. -2 to Research can hurt your research unless you compensate for it, but you get the benefit of 1 MR which coupled with points isn't as bad as you might think.

Heat/Cold: Only if I have to, to fit racial standards. Easy concept.

Production: This is the second scale I usually up. The only time I wouldn't up this scale would be if I am playing a style that I didn't need resources in order to field a decent army early or late in the game. More often than not this is either maxxed at 3 or Sloth. The factors of this choice are even, production and gold are both desired.

Sloth: I only choose sloth if I can field an army without production. This is rare and if I take this scale I *always* take Growth unless it's Ermor.

Order: I always take Order to 3 unless I am trying out some sort of Turmoil idea. If I adjust luck at all to misfortune I take Order up. Always.

Turmoil: Only for testing purposes. I have never sucessfully put a non Turmoil benefit race/theme (whether manditory or Pangaea) to use. It is counterproductive. If I ever take Turmoil I *always* take some form of Luck almost always 3.

Luck: This is a side note. More viewed from a "Did I take Turmoil or Order" outlook. Never on it's own merits. National heroes and such are nice; but they don't bring home the bacon.

Misfortune: If I have order I take this to 3, no middle ground. There are no other reasons I have ever taken misfortune outside of a few tests to see how many bad events I can get in a row/turn with Turmoil.

That's how I look at it. Others may have other ideas.