D2 vs Aow:SM

[Nerfix]

They are so diffrent kind of games...

But i stopped playing AoW 2 when i found Dominions I, so ...

[Elmo]

So there are two differences mentioned so far:

No diplomacy with the AI in D2.
No control of tactical combat in D2.

One similarity:

Weak AI.

Anyone else have something for comparison to help me decide whether to get D2 or not?

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
I have seen assasinations of my leaders. Both succesfull and otherwise.

What you mentioned earlier was with spells. I was referring to the AI opponents using 'Assassins'... as I have never seen stealthy units used for assassinations. Magic attacks are different types of attacks in my book.

[MythicalMino]

I personally couldn't stand the tactical combat in Shadow Magic....or any other tbs game that has it...I get much more enjoyment out of setting up my units with orders (and spells....what mages should use what spell first) than moving each individual unit move by move. To be honest, unless a Total War type design for tactical combat was used....that would RUIN the game. The largest battle I have participated in was upwards to 400 units....imagine trying to move each individual unit on the field...scary.

Diplomacy....I would like to see. BUT, at the same time, it seems not as important to me as I would have thought it would be...

As far as the AI goes....it really isn't even as bad as some of the ppl are making it out to be. Sure, there can be improvements. BUT, I have seen 110+ armies plowing through my provinces, and these armies have included summoned creatures, Heavy Infantry, Cavalry of different types, and other race-specific monsters. The AI does better on larger maps, with more AI's involved....The AI seems to not be able to handle what ppl call Super Combatants (a unit, usually a God, that is so overpowered with items, magic, ect ect, that nothing can stop him). There is an EASY player made fix for that though, just don't use Super Combatants. For a person to complain about how Super Combatants ruin the SP function of the game, but continues to use them, baffles me. The AI will not "build" Super Combatants....so, if you don't want an unfair advantage, don't you use it either.

I know I am probably going to end up getting flamed for this next statement, but who cares?

Dominions cries out to be played MP....be it network or Play By Email....This is where the game truly shines...and to be honest, what the developers had in mind from the very beginning (Dominions I, designed for them and their friends to play and have fun). Seeing that the main basic design hasn't changed from Dom1 to Dom2, I wouldn't think their main mindset would change either.

Now, I had Shadow Magic....but Dominions completely removed that game from any desire to play. Dominions has an...Epic feeling to it....It literally reminds me of Tolkiens Lord of the Rings in epic scope...There are SO many options just in creating your Pretender-God....not to mention nations. 17 different nations, and many of these nations has different themes within that nation (which gives you different available units). Different types of Fortresses to build, different units. Each nation is different and unique, with its own strengths and weaknesses. Sure, one nation may seem to be overpowered, but somewhere, there is a weakness....and a nation elswhere would be able to latch onto that weakness.

Dominions II looks really good too, I think. The maps really do remind me of some of the maps I have seen of Tolkiens Middle-Earth. They have a real "middle-age/fantasy" appearance.

I know in Shadow Magic, you have very limited amount of units to use, and even in those limits, there are even more limits. Some of the units are simply unusable (or, they were...could have been fixed via patches i guess). Dominions, I really don't get that feeling. Even Light Infantry has its usage (along with the free Militia you get sometimes in events....free patrollers, I would think).

Shadow Magic **might** be the prettier game....but Dominions, in my humble opinion, IS the better game.

I know this was a long post, but I tried to hit the things that ppl have commented on....and tried to compare the game to Shadow Magic. Just for reference, more ppl compare it to Master of Magic (although, I have never played that one...missed out on it)

[ November 25, 2003, 13:35: Message edited by: cpbeller ]

[Gandalf Parker]

AOW:SM is closer to being MoM2 than D2 is. AOW:SM is better in the areas of RPG and SoloPlay.

D2 is better for multiplayer and strategy. D2 is going to be the better choice for player community (player done docs, maps, mods, sites) and basically have a longer "shelf life" keeping it re-playable and on my computer longer

[Altus]

Originally posted by Elmo:
So there are two differences mentioned so far:

No diplomacy with the AI in D2.
No control of tactical combat in D2.

In Dom2 the player can give his commanders a limited number of combat formation and tactical orders prior to a battle. I find this far more realistic than AoW: SM's hands on tactical battles where the player controls every troop's action in the heat of battle; no commander has ever had that much control in any field engagement. I also appreciate how this limited battle control speeds up gameflow and reduces tedium.

Originally posted by Elmo:
One similarity:

Weak AI.

The quality of the AI between the two are far apart IMO. I have logged over a hundred hours of playtime with SM and have a difficult time recalling a battle I have lost, even at Emperor difficulty level; I know have never lost an entire game. In Dom2, playing with default settings at Normal difficulty and configuring my game to the recommended number of AI opponents for a given map losing a battle is commonplace, and loss of a game is not a shock either .

I rank Dom2 within the top10 most challenging solo turnbased games I have ever played. I wish SM provided as much of a challenge.

Originally posted by Elmo:
Anyone else have something for comparison to help me decide whether to get D2 or not?

Graphically, SM is far superior to Dom2. It has excellent 2D graphics; Dom2 graphics are minimalist. I have friends who have been unable to get beyond the graphics and appreciate the gameplay depth.

SM is a great 'beer and pretzel' fantasy wargame. I've had a lot of fun with it. Dom2 is also a lot of fun, but in a more cerebral way. Often I need to take a break from Dom2 to relax; it can get that involving and complex. Many gamers play for relaxation, so this can be a negative. SM is a lighter gaming experience and may compare favorably in this light.

As its been stated elsewhere in this thread, SM and Dom2 are vastly different games, both fun in their way. Personally though, I prefer Dom2 because I find it more challenging and complex.

[ November 25, 2003, 14:43: Message edited by: Altus ]

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
AOW:SM is closer to being MoM2 than D2 is. AOW:SM is better in the areas of RPG and SoloPlay.

D2 is better for multiplayer and strategy. D2 is going to be the better choice for player community (player done docs, maps, mods, sites) and basically have a longer "shelf life" keeping it re-playable and on my computer longer

Gandalf, you are more likely right....I have never played MoM....but i did have the unfortunate opportunity to play Shadow Magic

I always heard though, that MoM was more like fantasy Civ....and there has been comparisons with Dominions and what an actual fantasy civ would be like....

[ November 25, 2003, 13:46: Message edited by: cpbeller ]