D2 vs Aow:SM

[Gandalf Parker]

AOW:SM is closer to being MoM2 than D2 is. AOW:SM is better in the areas of RPG and SoloPlay.

D2 is better for multiplayer and strategy. D2 is going to be the better choice for player community (player done docs, maps, mods, sites) and basically have a longer "shelf life" keeping it re-playable and on my computer longer

[Altus]

Originally posted by Elmo:
So there are two differences mentioned so far:

No diplomacy with the AI in D2.
No control of tactical combat in D2.

In Dom2 the player can give his commanders a limited number of combat formation and tactical orders prior to a battle. I find this far more realistic than AoW: SM's hands on tactical battles where the player controls every troop's action in the heat of battle; no commander has ever had that much control in any field engagement. I also appreciate how this limited battle control speeds up gameflow and reduces tedium.

Originally posted by Elmo:
One similarity:

Weak AI.

The quality of the AI between the two are far apart IMO. I have logged over a hundred hours of playtime with SM and have a difficult time recalling a battle I have lost, even at Emperor difficulty level; I know have never lost an entire game. In Dom2, playing with default settings at Normal difficulty and configuring my game to the recommended number of AI opponents for a given map losing a battle is commonplace, and loss of a game is not a shock either .

I rank Dom2 within the top10 most challenging solo turnbased games I have ever played. I wish SM provided as much of a challenge.

Originally posted by Elmo:
Anyone else have something for comparison to help me decide whether to get D2 or not?

Graphically, SM is far superior to Dom2. It has excellent 2D graphics; Dom2 graphics are minimalist. I have friends who have been unable to get beyond the graphics and appreciate the gameplay depth.

SM is a great 'beer and pretzel' fantasy wargame. I've had a lot of fun with it. Dom2 is also a lot of fun, but in a more cerebral way. Often I need to take a break from Dom2 to relax; it can get that involving and complex. Many gamers play for relaxation, so this can be a negative. SM is a lighter gaming experience and may compare favorably in this light.

As its been stated elsewhere in this thread, SM and Dom2 are vastly different games, both fun in their way. Personally though, I prefer Dom2 because I find it more challenging and complex.

[ November 25, 2003, 14:43: Message edited by: Altus ]

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
AOW:SM is closer to being MoM2 than D2 is. AOW:SM is better in the areas of RPG and SoloPlay.

D2 is better for multiplayer and strategy. D2 is going to be the better choice for player community (player done docs, maps, mods, sites) and basically have a longer "shelf life" keeping it re-playable and on my computer longer

Gandalf, you are more likely right....I have never played MoM....but i did have the unfortunate opportunity to play Shadow Magic

I always heard though, that MoM was more like fantasy Civ....and there has been comparisons with Dominions and what an actual fantasy civ would be like....

[ November 25, 2003, 13:46: Message edited by: cpbeller ]

[Elmo]

Thanks to Gandalf and cpbeller. I'm mostly interested in D2 for MP with a long time gaming buddy. Sounds like combat is quite different in D2. I don't think we ever fought a battle in Aow:SM with more than 24 units on a side. If there are potentially hundreds of units then I can see why you don't fight that out manually in D2. I assume you do get to watch the fight though?

Is there a simultaneous movement choice in D2 or is it strictly turn based?

Not being able to influence the AI empires with diplomacy is a disappointment. That was a big part of AoW:SM for us as we were constantly trying to ally with AI's and turn them against the other person. You could also trade spells with allies and you didn't suffer from nasty area type spells your ally cast. Is there anything like that in D2?

Thanks again.

[ November 25, 2003, 13:59: Message edited by: Elmo ]

[Wendigo]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Dominions_II is like Civilization_III with fantasy elements but much more evolved.

I do not think this is a good comparison. They are both 4x games but have little more in common.

City building is a core part of Civ, while it's simplified a lot in Dom. Battles in Civ are a joke because of the huge abstraction & weird results like spearmen killing battleships, battles are one of the core elements of Dominions & have been treated with great care.

second: the artificial intelligence of computer opponents makes it easy to predict some army movement actions. I also have yet to see the AI opponents to try and assassinate one of my commanders. The largest topic on this forum is about improving the AI... but that's the way it is with most strategy games. [/QB]

Disagree. The AI doesn't do worse that the AIs from similar games, and I have played most of them.

Half of the thread you are referring to consist of 4 or so posters quoting each other's post entirely to add 'I agree' (deep thoughts indeed) & say how much they rock the AI.

Yet I have never faced any of them in MP to gauge how much of that is real skill & how much of it is ego stroking or taking advantage of extreme designs+tailored settings to get an easy win.

Others have said it previously, but I will do it also...
Dom II has 2 big strenghts: It's depth & its replayability: the game promised hours & hours of gameplay because it's without challenge the deepest game in the genre: Over 1,000 units, hudreds of spells, 17 nations...all of them different with their particular background & mythologically/historically inspired (instead of stock elves & orcs).

The game accounts for fatigue in battle, supplies, morale, experience, battle aflictions...the scope is epic with battles of even 1,000+ troopers and the way the tactical engine receives orders first & fights the battle on its own afterwards allows for this to be manageable.

If you want a prettier game, a game for the masses you should try AoW.

If you want a better game, a game for hardcore gamers that have played tons of different comp/board/miniatures games & know quality when they see it, then go for Dom II.

-edit grammar

[ November 25, 2003, 14:02: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

[Particle]

Originally posted by Elmo:
One similarity:

Weak AI.

LOL!

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Wendigo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Dominions_II is like Civilization_III with fantasy elements but much more evolved.

I do not think this is a good comparison. They are both 4x games but have little more in common.

City building is a core part of Civ, while it's simplified a lot in Dom. Battles in Civ are a joke because of the huge abstraction & weird results like spearmen killing battleships, battles are one of the core elements of Dominions & have been treated with great care.

second: the artificial intelligence of computer opponents makes it easy to predict some army movement actions. I also have yet to see the AI opponents to try and assassinate one of my commanders. The largest topic on this forum is about improving the AI... but that's the way it is with most strategy games.

Disagree. The AI doesn't do worse that the AIs from similar games, and I have played most of them.

Half of the thread you are referring to consist of 4 or so posters quoting each other's post entirely to add 'I agree' (deep thoughts indeed) & say how much they rock the AI.

Yet I have never faced any of them in MP to gauge how much of that is real skill & how much of it is ego stroking or taking advantage of extreme designs+tailored settings to get an easy win.

Others have said it previously, but I will do it also...
Dom II has 2 big strenghts: It's depth & its replayability: the game promised hours & hours of gameplay because it's without challenge the deepest game in the genre: Over 1,000 units, hudreds of spells, 17 nations...all of them different with their particular background & mythologically/historically inspired (instead of stock elves & orcs).

The game accounts for fatigue in battle, supplies, morale, experience, battle aflictions...the scope is epic with battles of even 1,000+ troopers and the way the tactical engine receives orders first & fights the battle on its own afterwards allows for this to be manageable.

If you want a prettier game, a game for the masses you should try AoW.

If you want a better game, a game for hardcore gamers that have played tons of different comp/board/miniatures games & know quality when they see it, then go for Dom II.

-edit grammar [/QB]

---

I agree (just joking, but I really do agree).

But, to clarify, there are actually 17 nations (you said 14)....but, also, there are many of the nations with different "themes", which I guess could in a way make there be more?

At any rate, I do agree....

oh, and Elmo, if you are wanting it primarily for MP purposes...I really don't think you can go wrong with a purchase of Dom2....contrary to popular belief, Dom is a game made for MP....