Please Help Me Tune My Man

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by apoger:
I am sure many will disagree with me on this, but in my opinion there are few sacred troops worth going out of your way for.

Oh, I agree fully on this. But Man is special as it lacks good shock infantry bar Wardens, who sure looked much better in Doms 1, but for different reasons than one might think:

(1) in Doms 1 Wardens died in droves to crossbow fire, luckily your Crones could negate this weakness easily with Storm or the staff of the same name. An air-9 Virtue is as close as you can get to what you had then, with the added benefit that you can now play Wardens and LBs in the same army (in Doms 1 you had to choose LBs or Storm, you couldn't get both at the same time).

(2) in Doms 1 Wardens where "naturally" immune to lightning once you had Enchantment 4, thanks to Crones again. Thunder Ward is nerfed now, but again an air-9 Virtue is as close as what you had then.

The loss of attack and strength bonuses is minor when compared with these 2 issues. Actually in Doms 1 the all-powerful Storm made Wardens, Temple Guards and Emerald Guards look better than they really were.

They are expensive and slow to build.

That at least isn't different from Doms 1.

In order to justify their value I demand serious firepower or resiliency. So far the only sacred troops that I like are Hydra and Niefel Giants (and I'm not a fan of the themes with which they are attached).

Hmmm, these themes are fun, and the better part of Doms 2 is, IMO, trying to get the most out of the "weaker" themes. I haven't touched the standard Pythium once since I downloaded the demo, I'm not even sure I'd ever play it again in MP. At least it'll save me from Communicant-MM headache.

If I can get some "bless effect" while designing my pretenders I certainly do it. However I do not design my pretenders to do blessing effects as their primary purpose (so far...).

Neither do I. But again, Man lacks shock HI and picking the Virtue comes as close to Doms 1 Man as is possible. You can't always rely on LBs with a thin screen of Tower Guards to do the job, or soon someone will pick a Staff of Storms and use Mist to make the life of your bowmen miserable.

The air-9 Virture would have impressed me more in Dom1,

Sorry, in Doms 1 an air-9 Virtue wouldn't give you anything that you didn't already have. In Doms 2 it gives you what you had in Doms 1.

however Wrathful Skies has been toned down enough that air-9 no longer equals an instant army killer.

Agree, but it's besides the point.

Partial missile and lightning protection for Wardens does nothing for me as it leaves them as nothing more than very expensive HI.

Hmmm, you can get these protections with spells, but you'll have to do some research first. And you won't always have a Crone nearby. Also, what about sneaking Wardens in enemy territory, and you're intercepted by patrols? Since most patrol duty is left to missilemen, that air shielding will come handy. Much more handy than any other blessing bonus I'd say.

Anyway the high morale and +3 boost when blessed are still there. I think we'll agree that the nerfed Storm (and to a lesser extent the nerfed Thunder Ward) makes HI a bit less attractive than they were in Doms 1. But now imagine a battle between Wardens and Emerald Guards, with missile support on both sides (say, crossbows for Pythium). Gee, forget it, I guess you'll tell me you aren't using EGs anymore because of their cost and the lack of D1-like Storm, and the new legionaries are better?

I'd rather have a Fire-9 Dragon. Such a dragon could go out and take provinces early, and thus expand the economy.

Early you're likely to meet lots of independents with missile backup, including LI with javelins. Just the kind of indeps a small army of air-shielded Wardens adn LBs would shred to bits. OTOH with a fire-9 dragon you'll have to rely on Tower Guards with much larger numbers of LBs to do the same job, or accept Warden losses. With 3/turn only (because of the dragon's low dominion) you could as well forget building Wardens for some time.

Plus the Wardens would get an impressive bonus to hit and 8AP fire damage (extra attack and damage is a synergistic effect).

Fire-9 was actually my first idea, but then if you want full econ you have to pick a starting dominion of 3 at best, and therefore half as many Wardens as the Virtue can afford. Now if you can convince me that flaming Wardens can beat twice their numbers of air-shielded lightning-resistant ones, when you factor in the LB and Crone support on both sides... or is Arrow Fend good enough to more than negate Wind Guide?

However I recommend the "astral manticore" for new players that ask for advice, since it's effectively a tutorial showing how to develop combat oriented gods.

Sorry, I missed that Last part. I thought we were supposed to give hints to the OP, who picked a Druid - hardly a combat-oriented guy.

It allows for fast expansion. Provides good defence until the late game. And can devour many other pretenders in a melee fight (like the virtue or dragon from above).

No doubt he could, but that's an unfair comparison, Virtues are not supposed to duel units with morale 30 or higher.